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Advice for front stage


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9 replies to this topic

#1
mhuck123

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I am basically starting from scratch and planning on building a system this time with the best possible staging and imaging I can manage. This is going to in a 1990-1993 Honda Accord I wil be purchasing in the next week or two and I plan on htting the ground running. I'm no competitor and don't think that I could reach that level in the near future but I have some good equipment and I want to do the best I can to let it shine. I am not ashamed to say that compared to many on here both my skill and time are limited so I am planning on doing everything I can with what I have!

Equipment
Alpine 7998 (have)
Xtant 50x2 (have)
Xtant 75x2 (have)
Xtant 100x2 (have)
Full SIP kit to fine tune and run active (which will also be my first) have
Focal Utopia 3 way (have)
Q-Forms kick panels (waiting to purchase until I know the interior color of the car)


Like I said my expertise is somewhat limited and time even more so. That is why I am going to go with a pre fab kick because they have always at least been decent and much less time consuming than starting from scratch. I do plan on glassing to rears and creating a box for the mids but that brings me to my question.

Would I be better off running the 6 and tweet in the kick and 4 in the pillar
4 and tweet in the kick and 6 in the door
or tweet and 4 in the pillar and 6 in the kick?

My previous setup was tweet in the dash stock location firing up against the glass near the base of the a pillar, 4 in the door and 6 in a very large custom kick panel. It sounded good but there were some definate holes in the sound. A lot of subtle mid range frequencies just seemed to be missing at times. Some of that possibly had to do with the head unit (AVIC N1) but I am sure the placement could have been better. I would love some feedback on this.

One final thing, I am planning on using 1 amp to power the setup and go passive until the 3Sixty.3 comes out soon. Then I will be switching to a dedicated amp for each pair of speakers for as much control as possible. I already have all the amps from previous installs so I though this would be a good setup but if you see a better way then let me know.
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#2
OrionStang

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I always liked the sound of midbass down low, midrange near the top of the door, and tweets in the pillar. All about evenly spaced from eachother. I think it comes down to preference, though. I run 3-way, and have my tweets and midbass low on the door, and midrange high on the door, but like the sound better from the way I said before.

Edit: I don't know much about staging and imaging or real SQ stuff, just what my ear likes.

Edited by OrionStang, 26 August 2011 - 02:09 PM.

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#3
mhuck123

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I always liked the sound of midbass down low, midrange near the top of the door, and tweets in the pillar. All about evenly spaced from eachother. I think it comes down to preference, though. I run 3-way, and have my tweets and midbass low on the door, and midrange high on the door, but like the sound better from the way I said before.

Edit: I don't know much about staging and imaging or real SQ stuff, just what my ear likes.



I got ya, personal preference is going to play a large part for sure. With the Focals the tweet is a little bright so I don't have a problem running it in the kick but there is a lot of knowledge on the site here and I wanted to get as much advice as possible before committing! My biggest problem I have is that when I workout I use my iPod and I can hear a lot more of the subtle notes and background tracks that I just have not been able to reproduce as clearly in the systems I have had in the past. I'm sure an iPod is nowhere near a heavyweight in sonic clarity ( I'm not even running lossless, YET!) so I have to believe that I can at least reproduce that level in my first SQ based system. I have the beats to go with everything else but I refuse to even start the box until I get the front stage right and my electrical up to par.
Starting From Scratch!!

#4
audio1der

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Wow- you're sure doing your homework!
I've always preferred a coincident point source for mids & highs, so I like to keep the mids & tweets together. Whether that's up on the pillar or in kicks is up to you. The midbass is far more omnidirectional, so in the doors makes sense to me.
Can't wait to see your progress! (and smart on you for the Q-logics; making nice kickpanels is a PITA if your time is limited)
Big 3 with 1/0 welding cable, dual runs of 1/0 and 2gua F-R DD 2512 D2 powered by Audioque 1200d at 1ohm, 2.5ft^3 ported to 36Hz Boston SX 6.0 comps powered by Phoenix Gold M50 for front stage Silver Flute 8" midbass in doors powered by Alpine 3539 Alpine CDA-117 HU

#5
Cablguy184

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sounds like a very cool setup !!! please post pics ASSP ... :drink40:

#6
drphilb

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Would I be better off running the 6 and tweet in the kick and 4 in the pillar
4 and tweet in the kick and 6 in the door
or tweet and 4 in the pillar and 6 in the kick?


Best to run the 4 and the tweeter in the Kick panel. and 6 in the door will give you the best possible staging and imaging. Make sure they are angled to the driver and passengers headrest. You can use a laser pen to do that.

This is a 3 way system which will require you to cross it properly or it will not sound right.

#7
Cablguy184

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I would rather have my tweeters in the a-pillars to enhance stage and image ... height, width, center, and left and right separation will already be accomplished with installation alone ...
just my suggestion here ..

#8
mhuck123

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Hey guys sorry for the delay, I sold the car I was going to put this in and bought a new one. The plan still stands but I drive 54 miles each way to work so time is very limited. I am also looking really hard to upgrade the 7998 to the 7998R with optical output. If I can find that I will change processing to the bit one instead. Stay tuned periodically, I will get this train rolling!
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#9
jhmeg2

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nice choice on equipment. as far as having the focal tweets in the dash or pillar, they are going to be BRIGHT... I would recomend the midbass in the door, one-two layers hushmat(or the like) on the outer-inner door skin, and inner panel, and seal the door off best you can using fiberglass, policarb, or sheetmetal and a layer of mat as well. Keep the mid and tweet together is the best bet(les work to do later on with processing). On the back of the kicks, make sure you also apply two layers of mat, to keep the plastic from resonating. You wont need to seal the kickpanels with fiberglass, i think that might be a wast of your time, unless they will be the midbass. I would think that the 6.5s will play down to about 50-60, and your sub will be from 55ish down. Time correction, and phassing will be time consuming, but worth it in the end with active. space will be taken up by your multiple amps. Have you considered using Zapco DC Refrence amps, to do both amplification and processing? A 6 ch for the front stage and a 4 ch for the rear and sub. Its nice to have a lot of power, but in the corect enclosure, even a small sub can really fill out the sound. and will require less power and in turn, cost less.

Think about it, you could run two amps for a three way active setup with rear(active) and sub, and have your processing on board as well. Less power consumption by equipment, less space taken up by equipment, less wire to run. just my thoughts, I have had some what good success in the past with SQ. Now its just for my listening pleasure... and obsession. lol, hit me up if you need healp or input.

Also, if your going to run an alpine deck, have you considered the 701. highly recomend that piece

Edited by jhmeg2, 28 November 2011 - 06:09 PM.

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#10
Cablguy184

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Any updates ?? :drink40: