Peal and Seal

[TechSys]

The argument between Peal-N-Seal and other products will never end. I am not even going to try ending it with the following, but I will tell you my experience with PNS.

The first time I tried PNS, I put a piece under a 1991 Chevy Beretta GT. The piece was aprox 6" x 6" and I put it right under the spare tire area. I did not clean the area first. I wanted to test it to see how it would hold up to the elements. This was back in 2005, I believe. After going a couple weeks, checking it every day, I decided to line the trunk lid with it. Did it help? Sure did, another layer could have made it much better. But, the PNS started falling within a month or two. The piece that I put under the car is still there and hasn't dropped one bit.

Fast forward a little bit, I bought a 1989 Chevy Astro. Shortly after buying the Astro I started with PNS on it. I put a few pieces on the roof, some on the side, and some in the rear doors. I cleaned the areas real good with Windex before applying PNS. I only used one layer in all the places I installed it. Did it work? Hell yea. The only places that rattled were where I did not install PNS. Now remember, this was in 2005. We will fast forward to 2011. The PNS has finally started coming off the roof and sides of the van. Because of that happening I am noticing a lot more rattle. 5 years of this stuff being in the van I never had the "tar smell" others have mentioned. 5 years of PNS being in the van, the areas it was applied either did not rattle, or rattled very little. 5 years of very good results of having PNS installed in the van. I don't think I can complain one iota. (I know on another forum I said 3 years, but I had to recheck a video I uploaded to ROE to make sure of the dates)

Now, if I have to install any type of deadener, mass loader, or whatever you want to call it, ever 5 years, I am not out one bit. PNS worked and paid for itself.

I also have Protect-O-Wrap installed in the van. For those that do not know, Protect-O-Wrap is the parent company of AudioWrap. How do you know Protect-O-Wrap is not asphalt based? Because it says it on the package? I believe a few years ago PNS even had, in black and white, that it was butyl based. They had to change it when people started questioning. And yes, Dynamat, when it first came out was asphalt based, it worked, didn't it?

Now look at something else..... Audiowrap says butyl adhesive. That's the glue, not the product itself. PNS also has a butyl adhesive. hmmmm. I don't think the adhesive does the sound deadening, do you?

Let me try to get back on track here.

Let's look at some myths.

PNS is not made for vehicles?

PEEL-N-SEAL bonds marble, tile, wood, Plexiglas, fiberglass, insulation and metals.

Last I looked vehicles were metal, so what's the problem?

PNS is not a sound deadener?

Use several thicknesses of it to reduce noise and vibration from motors and machinery

Umm, reducing noise and vibration isn't sound deadening?

PNS doesn't seal?

Use it to caulk seams and cracks in windows and doorways, wall panels, concrete block, seal around ductwork and conduit ... even seal holes in bodies and firewalls of cars, trucks or trailer bodies.

Ouch, right from their own website, EVEN bodies and firewalls of cars, trucks, or trailer bodies. daaaaaamn..

Now, I honestly believe the mistakes of using PNS is 75% user error. Either by not cleaning the area good enough or not fully applying the stuff to the vehicle. It may also depend on the vehicle. Some may, for some reason, not allow it to stick to them. I'mnot sure with that though.

If I remember right, back before Dynamat came around (and even after Dynamat came into existance), competitors used PNS products. A lot of heavy hitters were using PNS with good results. hmmmm. What changed? Nothing except other products came out and companies needing to push them.

I'm not going to say PNS or products like them are the best things to use, they're not. They will do the job, and do it well. Companies like Second Skin have a much better product than PNS, but for a lot of people, it's expensive. We all can understand that, even if we don't want to admit it.

For a quick and cheap fix that does well if installed properly, try a PNS product.

and remember, Car Audio installs mostly require thinking outside the box.

[Second Skin Rep Jon]

TechSys, at least you are one of the few people who has actually provided first hand experiences with using P&S and similar products. And most everything you said I can agree with. They work, but aren't exactly the best choice.

If I remember right, back before Dynamat came around (and even after Dynamat came into existance), competitors used PNS products. A lot of heavy hitters were using PNS with good results. hmmmm. What changed?

Correct. The Original Dynamat product was asphalt based. However what made it different from most (if not all) of the other asphalt based products was the fact that it had an actual pressure-sensitive heat activated adhesive, where as the other asphalt products were relying on the asphalt as the adhesive. This is why the failure rate of the Original Dynamat was much less than the others.

What changed? Technology. The sound deadening industry has changed many times over the years and the focus has went from adding mass (to change the panels resonance frequency) to actually controlling the vibrational energy. Because of this change vibration products have become thinner, lighter, cheaper, and less product is needed to achieve the same level of noise reduction. The term "Work smarter, not harder." applies very well to these products.

By definition P&S can technically be called a sound deadener... but then again the same thing could be said about latex paint.

To deaden: to make less sensitive, active, energetic, or forcible; to weaken or retard.

PEEL-N-SEAL bonds marble, tile, wood, Plexiglas, fiberglass, insulation and metals.

Use several thicknesses of it to reduce noise and vibration from motors and machinery

Use it to caulk seams and cracks in windows and doorways, wall panels, concrete block, seal around ductwork and conduit ... even seal holes in bodies and firewalls of cars, trucks or trailer bodies.

The statements above could also be applied to latex paint.

1. It bonds to most everything like glue.

2. Because of it's elastomeric properties, a build up of multiple layers would reduce noise.

3. It can fill cracks and holes in all sorts of things.

Toss in some lead shot, sand, or other "filler" and you have yourself a pretty awesome DIY elastomeric mass loading coating!

I'm not trying to be an ass, but do people understand what I'm saying?

AudioWrap IS a butyl based product, no argument there. It's also made in the USA which I really like too. What makes it a bit lower on the totem pole of sound deadeners is it has a fairly thin and flexible aluminum constraint layer compared to the other 100% butyl based sound deadeners mats out there.

All of the recent MSDS data sheets I have sitting in front of me still show P&S as an asphalt based product. It contains a minimum of 40% asphalt and a maximum of 20% butylene rubber compounds. So it still falls under the category of a rubberized asphalt product.

Now I will say there is one caveat to the above statement and that is there are several P&S type products out there that ARE butyl based, such as Typar Flex Flashing and Vycor Plus. However these products rarely (if ever) have any sort of foil constraint layer, so I'd assume most people are not referring to them when they say P&S.

Like TechSys said, there are products that work better than P&S and they tend to cost more... it's the nature of the beast.

[JMac91]

I would really like to see audiotechnix results compared to second skin, just to see how well they are compared to each other

Was it necessary to bump this.. I remember seein this thread a month ago.

[TeamHT]

Yes. There is great information here. And I do have performance comparisons for audiotechnix for anyone interested, just pm me.

[tonedeaf]

./sigh Why cant I delete my own failure posts.