BTL 18 Caught fire :(

[97SSBlazer]

I fail sir, Series.... Box is tuned at 32Hz...

[NDMstang65]

Pick up an adjustable subsonic filter. Turn the one on the amp as well, and it will make a cascading linkweitz-reily (spelling sorry i butchered that no sleep) 18-24dB/octave slope.

If you've got any boosting features in the EQ of the deck, disable them.

[97SSBlazer]

Pick up an adjustable subsonic filter. Turn the one on the amp as well, and it will make a cascading linkweitz-reily (spelling sorry i butchered that no sleep) 18-24dB/octave slope.

If you've got any boosting features in the EQ of the deck, disable them.

I have no boost of any kind.

[Bumpindemlowzz]

I want meades oscope thing to come out so i can be sure im not clipping much either.

[97SSBlazer]

yea i would like to have one my self.

[P4killer_]

Forgive me if this is a dumb ? , but Id consider his amp to be a quality amp I think alot of ppl would.

If you set the ssf on or w.e to 28hz, you're saying its inadequate? I understand the filter doesnt completely eliminate output at w.e freq. it just cuts it down by 12 db or w.e. to be honest idk about the octave slope kinda thing.

so what im asking is:

Why wouldnt the ssf work? I mean realistically why wouldnt you expect it to keep you safe from freq below what you set it to.

Now im sure on a ton of power playing below tuning and lower freq the ssf could only do sooo much, but btls should be fine on 3k

unless hes clipping of course.

[Bumpindemlowzz]

90% of installs are clipping either from the music itself being played, or a few other reasons. No system is setup absolutely perfect.

Edit- Even with a oscope

[97SSBlazer]

If I were clipping for the last three months wouldn't the coil be dis colored? After lots of talking and looking it appears the tinsel failed at the triple joint, There is a lot of glue on the tinsels MAYBE it caused a weak spot, IDK. I really think it was a failure from age, the fact that I was giving it 3000 watts RMS for the past 6 months. Its hard to tell I know the bdCP amps really put out so IDK...

[VOPA]

I have seen it happen locally to a guy in Memphis. His BTL blew sky high and caught on fire with a kicker zx1500 on it!!!!!!!!! I have never been a fan of Fi. I think it is a lot of hype and they have NOTHING special about what they build until the new neo setups came out.

Funny part about this setup you have is it appears to have never been given much power either. I am gonna say piss poor connections on the tinsels and voice coils or obviously tinsels that become broke in the middle. The worse and worse the connection, the more heat it generated... compounding the problem of thinner and weaker tinsels which have become increasing brittle and less effective as a conductor. Eventually it breaks and then arcs big when makeing contact, momentarily of course, as the sub is still being driven by the other coil.

I have heard of tinsel problems on ascendants as well... If you play them daily and ride with your tunes jamming all the time, they are destined to fail even within reccommended enclosures and under-rms power levels

Not a thing wrong with the tinsel leads...it's the old addage of buying a car and driving it into a bridge..which is obviously the cars fault right?

The issue is this (if you want to take the time to read it):

There is nothing wrong with doing the leads like this and it only has issues and develops problems in the following situations.

There are 3 things that come into play.

1) Those coils that are ".5ohm" are not ".5ohm" in parallel, they are .35ohm dcr. The power supply cannot supply enough current on the rails to the output side stage of the amplifier so it starves itself into trying to make power that it simply cannot make. Kicks out DC voltage and things get very nasty very quickly...which continue to read and I'll explain more.

2) Korean/Chinese amps. For those who do not know the bigger the amplifiers get the more issues you are going to run into. These things are designed and built on a power supply that has a bank that is plugged into a wall on a resistor that is always constant, not a sub-woofer. In order to get efficiency up so you can get more power out of the amp and put in less and less to get efficiency up above 85% or so they ramp up the switching frequency on the power supply of the amplifier itself. This ranges from board to manufacturer..but all of the bigger amps all have the same exact issue. What happens at these frequencies is you are reaching the range of "Microwaves". The amplifier does not filter this stuff out...and you cannot hear it as it is much higher then the frequency range that human ear can detect. Signal goes from the amplifier to the terminal block...the frequency range is outside of what the terminal block is so it continues to the tinsel leads. The tinsel leads have the current and voltage going through them in the first place which already makes heat present and why the spiders are treated with flame retardant coating to prevent it from catching on fire. What happens is the amplifier's switching power supply actually 'Microwaves' the tinsel leads at the frequency in which it is switching at which happens to be very close to the resonant frequency of the size of wire and material of the tinsel leads themselves.

When you throw a piece of aluminum foil in a microwave in your house...or a CD..what happens? There is a HUGE generation of heat because on a molecular level the material itself is vibrating back and forth at that given set of frequencies...which is how a microwave warms your TV dinner up.

3) When you start to drop an amp below 1ohm more heat is being built up because the power supply side of things of the amplifier simply cannot handle the demand that the output stage is wanting to get. When you do not have a subsonic filter...or one that is set improperly...you then start to make this thing that you've just microwaved move...

Take a can of coke, pop it open and bend it back and forth a few millimeters...within it's mechanical limitations that tab will never break. Now if you start to bend it past its mechanical limitations is when you start to get into trouble. This is where the subsonic filter comes in and making sure that you are not playing full power below port tuning frequency of a sub. If you already have something that's hot from running it hard on one of the Korean amps and you start yanking the soft parts past their mechanical limitations more and more heat builds up...

You get to the point where so much heat builds up that the spiders start smoldering...they won't catch on fire until you've clipped the signal to death, vaporized all of the flame retardant spray that the spiders are soaked in and then it smokes. (square wave form, dc voltage and induction heating out of the amp because the power supply cannot handle what you are doing to it)

It's not the sub, there is absolutely nothing wrong with running those leads like they are. What's going on is an issue of the big cheap Korean amplifiers in and of themselves...and total ill-regard to what a microwave and conductive material does.

Hope this helps you understand...if you run a Crown A6000Gti you'll never have a problem...because it's an A/B amp....the other stuff that is cheap...don't run it below 1ohm or you are going to have nothing but problems because in order to get that big power cheaply and cut out on the parts that are going into the amplifier the switching frequency of the power supply must be ramped way up...in turn microwaving woofer parts.

There will be no finger pointing as I've already tested all of this stuff and know exactly what is going on. Don't design an amp on a resistor...and don't wire an amp below 1ohm, don't clip the piss out of it to get the tinsel leads so freaking hot that they glow, no bass boost etc. you'll never have a problem.

Moral of the story? Lay off the what I like to call the "stupid button". It will hurt your wallet every time...because stupidity is not covered under any warranty at all.

Regards

I am going to disagree with you on much of this. If anyone reads carefully, they can see you are somewhat contradicting yourself. I have a lot to say, but little energy or time to say it.

Fact: The more a sub moves, the more it cools. Simple concept.

Everyone please remember that the "microwaving" effect that is mentioned here is a small ripple on the output frequency of the amplifier. Just because a high frequency is involved does not mean we are dealing with microwaves. I kind of see where you are going with this, but In most cases, this makes up only mere miniscule fraction of a percent of the voltage (and current when sub is connected) of the output of one of the "cheap koreans" The output ripple is NOWHERE near the MHz or GHz range which are what microwave frequencies are considered. For the record, there are hundreds of thousands of microwave communications devices sending signals through non-ferrous metals as we speak, without incident.

For those wondering... for illustration purposes. Draw a huge sine wave and put a super fine mini ripple that follows along the top of the whole wave. The amplitude of the ripple in most cases whould be 1/100 of the amplitude of the output waveform for illustration purposes. To all those with oscilloscopes... adjust your frequency resolution and examine a very small portion of the wave to see this miriaculously destructive mini ripple

Comparing to the 6000gti is just plain nonsense. High speed switchable outputs may not be present, but you are comparing apples to oranges and it is all smoke and mirrors. The gti is a high voltage and low current design seeing as how it is an a/b 2 channel (duh) and all the big korean monos are low voltage and high current in comparison. (double duh) A better tinsel would be nice!

The real question is: what should you be doing instead of making obscure justifications on the internet for your product shortcomings? I know! I know! Be a man. Be an "engineer". Face your market. "Cheap Korean" made amps are the number one thing pushign your subs, by far. What are you doing to adapt?

[fritosaregood]

interesting things goin on here. im sub'd for the debate