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I have seen it happen locally to a guy in Memphis. His BTL blew sky high and caught on fire with a kicker zx1500 on it!!!!!!!!! I have never been a fan of Fi. I think it is a lot of hype and they have NOTHING special about what they build until the new neo setups came out.

Funny part about this setup you have is it appears to have never been given much power either. I am gonna say piss poor connections on the tinsels and voice coils or obviously tinsels that become broke in the middle. The worse and worse the connection, the more heat it generated... compounding the problem of thinner and weaker tinsels which have become increasing brittle and less effective as a conductor. Eventually it breaks and then arcs big when makeing contact, momentarily of course, as the sub is still being driven by the other coil.

I have heard of tinsel problems on ascendants as well... If you play them daily and ride with your tunes jamming all the time, they are destined to fail even within reccommended enclosures and under-rms power levels

Not a thing wrong with the tinsel leads...it's the old addage of buying a car and driving it into a bridge..which is obviously the cars fault right?

The issue is this (if you want to take the time to read it):

There is nothing wrong with doing the leads like this and it only has issues and develops problems in the following situations.

There are 3 things that come into play.

1) Those coils that are ".5ohm" are not ".5ohm" in parallel, they are .35ohm dcr. The power supply cannot supply enough current on the rails to the output side stage of the amplifier so it starves itself into trying to make power that it simply cannot make. Kicks out DC voltage and things get very nasty very quickly...which continue to read and I'll explain more.

2) Korean/Chinese amps. For those who do not know the bigger the amplifiers get the more issues you are going to run into. These things are designed and built on a power supply that has a bank that is plugged into a wall on a resistor that is always constant, not a sub-woofer. In order to get efficiency up so you can get more power out of the amp and put in less and less to get efficiency up above 85% or so they ramp up the switching frequency on the power supply of the amplifier itself. This ranges from board to manufacturer..but all of the bigger amps all have the same exact issue. What happens at these frequencies is you are reaching the range of "Microwaves". The amplifier does not filter this stuff out...and you cannot hear it as it is much higher then the frequency range that human ear can detect. Signal goes from the amplifier to the terminal block...the frequency range is outside of what the terminal block is so it continues to the tinsel leads. The tinsel leads have the current and voltage going through them in the first place which already makes heat present and why the spiders are treated with flame retardant coating to prevent it from catching on fire. What happens is the amplifier's switching power supply actually 'Microwaves' the tinsel leads at the frequency in which it is switching at which happens to be very close to the resonant frequency of the size of wire and material of the tinsel leads themselves.

When you throw a piece of aluminum foil in a microwave in your house...or a CD..what happens? There is a HUGE generation of heat because on a molecular level the material itself is vibrating back and forth at that given set of frequencies...which is how a microwave warms your TV dinner up.

3) When you start to drop an amp below 1ohm more heat is being built up because the power supply side of things of the amplifier simply cannot handle the demand that the output stage is wanting to get. When you do not have a subsonic filter...or one that is set improperly...you then start to make this thing that you've just microwaved move...

Take a can of coke, pop it open and bend it back and forth a few millimeters...within it's mechanical limitations that tab will never break. Now if you start to bend it past its mechanical limitations is when you start to get into trouble. This is where the subsonic filter comes in and making sure that you are not playing full power below port tuning frequency of a sub. If you already have something that's hot from running it hard on one of the Korean amps and you start yanking the soft parts past their mechanical limitations more and more heat builds up...

You get to the point where so much heat builds up that the spiders start smoldering...they won't catch on fire until you've clipped the signal to death, vaporized all of the flame retardant spray that the spiders are soaked in and then it smokes. (square wave form, dc voltage and induction heating out of the amp because the power supply cannot handle what you are doing to it)

It's not the sub, there is absolutely nothing wrong with running those leads like they are. What's going on is an issue of the big cheap Korean amplifiers in and of themselves...and total ill-regard to what a microwave and conductive material does.

Hope this helps you understand...if you run a Crown A6000Gti you'll never have a problem...because it's an A/B amp....the other stuff that is cheap...don't run it below 1ohm or you are going to have nothing but problems because in order to get that big power cheaply and cut out on the parts that are going into the amplifier the switching frequency of the power supply must be ramped way up...in turn microwaving woofer parts.

There will be no finger pointing as I've already tested all of this stuff and know exactly what is going on. Don't design an amp on a resistor...and don't wire an amp below 1ohm, don't clip the piss out of it to get the tinsel leads so freaking hot that they glow, no bass boost etc. you'll never have a problem.

Moral of the story? Lay off the what I like to call the "stupid button". It will hurt your wallet every time...because stupidity is not covered under any warranty at all.

Regards

Agreeing with previous person that quoted you on page 2 as well, you are wrong. There is no magnetron present in an amplifier nor at the tinsel leads which is required to produce enough microwaves to create the aluminum foil/cd sparking effect you are talking about. The switching frequency of the amplifier will not create microwaves in significant amounts otherwise you would probably be dead by now.

What did likely happen is that excursion caused flexing of the tripple joint which cracked wires in the tinsel lead causing fewer connections (and therefor higher resistance) at that point.

MickyMcD - "Capable of making some serious trouser flapping volumes at where's-my-testicles frequencies, the Servo-Drives used to be fairly jaw dropping..."

Any time you have have a power wire next to your frame put some rubber hosing (or cut up an innertube) around it. The wire is bound to wiggle (due to driving or flex) and the casing will eventually wear through.

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Sigh. If anyone cares to read, the post is stating the most common failures, not an exact explanation for the OPs issue.

Tell me...does this smell like chloroform to you?

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no one on here will be able to point out why that sub died over the internet. the way I see it is out of the hundreds of btls that style that sold I know of 2 right now that decided to shit the leads and start on fire. for all I know his amp could have dumped straight dc into it. all I was stating is that a ssf will not do that to a sub unless by some reason, probably a fault in the sub, the leads decided to short out, or the coil rocked and wore so it shorted on the motor. Which I've never had happen but have seen it.

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previously known as wenn_du_weinst aka fucking internet coward supreme.  I talk shit on other forums like a little bitch and hope i don't get caught out on the street.  

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WOW....thats wild....good thing nothing else caught fire with it.....

I guess in the world of high power car audio shit happens....Kinda like in my world....I work on high performance boats for a living.....its amazing how high power plus hours of hard useage can tear shit up....

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I have seen it happen locally to a guy in Memphis. His BTL blew sky high and caught on fire with a kicker zx1500 on it!!!!!!!!! I have never been a fan of Fi. I think it is a lot of hype and they have NOTHING special about what they build until the new neo setups came out.

Funny part about this setup you have is it appears to have never been given much power either. I am gonna say piss poor connections on the tinsels and voice coils or obviously tinsels that become broke in the middle. The worse and worse the connection, the more heat it generated... compounding the problem of thinner and weaker tinsels which have become increasing brittle and less effective as a conductor. Eventually it breaks and then arcs big when makeing contact, momentarily of course, as the sub is still being driven by the other coil.

I have heard of tinsel problems on ascendants as well... If you play them daily and ride with your tunes jamming all the time, they are destined to fail even within reccommended enclosures and under-rms power levels

I think what you say is Bullshit..This happened because of user error most likely.The man was running 3,3oo watts to a 2,000 watt sub, which is bound to cause problems over time.

Have you ever ran a Fi subwoofer yourself?

Fi BTL 15 N2 D2

-4.5 net..30Hz/Birch and Braced

-AQ 2200D running at 4-ohms for meantime...

-Big 3 KNU 1/0

-XS 1200

-Sundown 100.4 SAX

-Front Stage: CDT CL-61

-Rear: Alpine Type-SA

-HeadUnit-Pioneer AVHDVD-3200

-2004 Saturn Ion

Best score to Date is a 143.1 at the kick with 2 RF HX2 10's in a PWK box!

BUILD LOG---15 BTL...Shit is loud Son!!

You TUBE---RIGHT HERE

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And why the fuck is a sub manufacture saying the SSF burnt the tinsels up? It would bottom out Not burn stuff up. wow remember to research who you buy from

well if you think about it, if his SSF was set to low it would cause the tinsels to tear because of over excursion leading to a short, then a fire.......Think before you talk.

Fi BTL 15 N2 D2

-4.5 net..30Hz/Birch and Braced

-AQ 2200D running at 4-ohms for meantime...

-Big 3 KNU 1/0

-XS 1200

-Sundown 100.4 SAX

-Front Stage: CDT CL-61

-Rear: Alpine Type-SA

-HeadUnit-Pioneer AVHDVD-3200

-2004 Saturn Ion

Best score to Date is a 143.1 at the kick with 2 RF HX2 10's in a PWK box!

BUILD LOG---15 BTL...Shit is loud Son!!

You TUBE---RIGHT HERE

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I have seen it happen locally to a guy in Memphis. His BTL blew sky high and caught on fire with a kicker zx1500 on it!!!!!!!!! I have never been a fan of Fi. I think it is a lot of hype and they have NOTHING special about what they build until the new neo setups came out.

Funny part about this setup you have is it appears to have never been given much power either. I am gonna say piss poor connections on the tinsels and voice coils or obviously tinsels that become broke in the middle. The worse and worse the connection, the more heat it generated... compounding the problem of thinner and weaker tinsels which have become increasing brittle and less effective as a conductor. Eventually it breaks and then arcs big when makeing contact, momentarily of course, as the sub is still being driven by the other coil.

I have heard of tinsel problems on ascendants as well... If you play them daily and ride with your tunes jamming all the time, they are destined to fail even within reccommended enclosures and under-rms power levels

Not a thing wrong with the tinsel leads...it's the old addage of buying a car and driving it into a bridge..which is obviously the cars fault right?

The issue is this (if you want to take the time to read it):

There is nothing wrong with doing the leads like this and it only has issues and develops problems in the following situations.

There are 3 things that come into play.

1) Those coils that are ".5ohm" are not ".5ohm" in parallel, they are .35ohm dcr. The power supply cannot supply enough current on the rails to the output side stage of the amplifier so it starves itself into trying to make power that it simply cannot make. Kicks out DC voltage and things get very nasty very quickly...which continue to read and I'll explain more.

2) Korean/Chinese amps. For those who do not know the bigger the amplifiers get the more issues you are going to run into. These things are designed and built on a power supply that has a bank that is plugged into a wall on a resistor that is always constant, not a sub-woofer. In order to get efficiency up so you can get more power out of the amp and put in less and less to get efficiency up above 85% or so they ramp up the switching frequency on the power supply of the amplifier itself. This ranges from board to manufacturer..but all of the bigger amps all have the same exact issue. What happens at these frequencies is you are reaching the range of "Microwaves". The amplifier does not filter this stuff out...and you cannot hear it as it is much higher then the frequency range that human ear can detect. Signal goes from the amplifier to the terminal block...the frequency range is outside of what the terminal block is so it continues to the tinsel leads. The tinsel leads have the current and voltage going through them in the first place which already makes heat present and why the spiders are treated with flame retardant coating to prevent it from catching on fire. What happens is the amplifier's switching power supply actually 'Microwaves' the tinsel leads at the frequency in which it is switching at which happens to be very close to the resonant frequency of the size of wire and material of the tinsel leads themselves.

When you throw a piece of aluminum foil in a microwave in your house...or a CD..what happens? There is a HUGE generation of heat because on a molecular level the material itself is vibrating back and forth at that given set of frequencies...which is how a microwave warms your TV dinner up.

3) When you start to drop an amp below 1ohm more heat is being built up because the power supply side of things of the amplifier simply cannot handle the demand that the output stage is wanting to get. When you do not have a subsonic filter...or one that is set improperly...you then start to make this thing that you've just microwaved move...

Take a can of coke, pop it open and bend it back and forth a few millimeters...within it's mechanical limitations that tab will never break. Now if you start to bend it past its mechanical limitations is when you start to get into trouble. This is where the subsonic filter comes in and making sure that you are not playing full power below port tuning frequency of a sub. If you already have something that's hot from running it hard on one of the Korean amps and you start yanking the soft parts past their mechanical limitations more and more heat builds up...

You get to the point where so much heat builds up that the spiders start smoldering...they won't catch on fire until you've clipped the signal to death, vaporized all of the flame retardant spray that the spiders are soaked in and then it smokes. (square wave form, dc voltage and induction heating out of the amp because the power supply cannot handle what you are doing to it)

It's not the sub, there is absolutely nothing wrong with running those leads like they are. What's going on is an issue of the big cheap Korean amplifiers in and of themselves...and total ill-regard to what a microwave and conductive material does.

Hope this helps you understand...if you run a Crown A6000Gti you'll never have a problem...because it's an A/B amp....the other stuff that is cheap...don't run it below 1ohm or you are going to have nothing but problems because in order to get that big power cheaply and cut out on the parts that are going into the amplifier the switching frequency of the power supply must be ramped way up...in turn microwaving woofer parts.

There will be no finger pointing as I've already tested all of this stuff and know exactly what is going on. Don't design an amp on a resistor...and don't wire an amp below 1ohm, don't clip the piss out of it to get the tinsel leads so freaking hot that they glow, no bass boost etc. you'll never have a problem.

Moral of the story? Lay off the what I like to call the "stupid button". It will hurt your wallet every time...because stupidity is not covered under any warranty at all.

Regards

Agreeing with previous person that quoted you on page 2 as well, you are wrong. There is no magnetron present in an amplifier nor at the tinsel leads which is required to produce enough microwaves to create the aluminum foil/cd sparking effect you are talking about. The switching frequency of the amplifier will not create microwaves in significant amounts otherwise you would probably be dead by now.

What did likely happen is that excursion caused flexing of the tripple joint which cracked wires in the tinsel lead causing fewer connections (and therefor higher resistance) at that point.

Spot on! I love forum members who know something and do not continuously regurgitate the same forum bullshit over and over... effectively clouding the minds of young readers and those wanting to learn.

I have seen it happen locally to a guy in Memphis. His BTL blew sky high and caught on fire with a kicker zx1500 on it!!!!!!!!! I have never been a fan of Fi. I think it is a lot of hype and they have NOTHING special about what they build until the new neo setups came out.

Funny part about this setup you have is it appears to have never been given much power either. I am gonna say piss poor connections on the tinsels and voice coils or obviously tinsels that become broke in the middle. The worse and worse the connection, the more heat it generated... compounding the problem of thinner and weaker tinsels which have become increasing brittle and less effective as a conductor. Eventually it breaks and then arcs big when makeing contact, momentarily of course, as the sub is still being driven by the other coil.

I have heard of tinsel problems on ascendants as well... If you play them daily and ride with your tunes jamming all the time, they are destined to fail even within reccommended enclosures and under-rms power levels

I think what you say is Bullshit..This happened because of user error most likely.The man was running 3,3oo watts to a 2,000 watt sub, which is bound to cause problems over time.

Have you ever ran a Fi subwoofer yourself?

You, sir, own a Fi sub. I would expect that out of you. Get Nick or Scott on the phone. A "fully loaded" BTL is a 3000 watt rms sub and that rockford has never ever ever ever ever delivered 3000 watts rms of non clipped signal in its life due to impedance rise and voltage supply. I will bet my house on it. Asking if I have ever ran a Fi sub... lol My Fi subs were ok. Nothing special. My Ascendant subs were the same thing. The Havoc had me hooked for a while.

Lastly, cause problems? The hunk of shit caught on fire. IS that a normal problem within the bounds of giving a sub its approximate rms power?

04 Monochrome LT Chevy Tahoe

-A few wires, half a speaker, some watts

-All Black 6's

-Paint to Match, SS Bumper, Black grills.

-HID'ed and LED'ed

-A few performance enhancers

I have two nice subs for sale, but I am not allowed to help my fellow forum members by offering it to them for a nice price via my signature, sorry

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WOW, you clipped that sub really bad.

When you fry leads like that, 100% of the time is because of a dirty signal ( which is a significant clippage, since there is quad leads on each terminal ). Manufacturers don't warranty that.fyi

Since they are integrated in the spider, thats it it burned too. If is was regular sewed on leads, the lead would of just burned in half.

50+ on low music, daily.

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