Thought DC's had woven leads?

[Noobtastic14]

you mean stitched or woven? as far as I can tell all of their subs come with woven (heavy duty interweaved according to the website) tinsel leads. None of the descriptions mention anything about stitched tinsel leads, so that must have been an assumption on your part.

The "Heavy duty interweaved" leads is describing the quality of the lead wire itself not how it is applied to the speaker. Some DC products come with "fee floating" woven leads (lvl3s) and some come with single/dual stitched woven leads (lvl4/XL)

if they just did woven/stitched leads on all of their woofers then threads like this wouldnt happen

This is a great idea! but it will be the customer that eats the cost of stitching every single woofer. The level 2s and 3s are not top of the line woofers they are budget everyday groundpounding speakers and the price point reflects that. Majority of people in here will never use a level 3 in a manner that warrants the stitched leads over the free floating. In most cases, it is user error that will burn/break things whether they are stitched or not. So how about play the shit out of them and if you break the leads, upgrade! until that time, don't worry about it.

Lastly, If you are doing 1k+ to a level 3 you are wrong! get a level 4

If you are doing 2k+ on a level 4 you are wrong! get an XL

If you are doing 3k+ on an XL keep beating the piss out of it because it is my favorite woofer and indestructible

-Drew

[Noobtastic14]

not going to jump on the whole salesman argument because i simply think the OP is over thinking this whole thing. he's freaked out his leads won't hold up to the power he's using. i'm sure a company like DC wouldn't use those leads if they weren't going to be good enough for the level of speaker it is. he also said he is only going about 200 watts over RMS, which also imo isn't that much. then you get into the technical jibber jabber of rise/actual clamped power and he still may not be over powering them.

so basically...regardless of whatever the sales rep should/would/could have done, i still think his subs will be fine

It doesn't matter if it is 50w or 5,000w over RMS the speaker is rated that much for a reason, anybody that wants to put more power on it should take PERSONAL responsibility to its outcome.

-Drew

[MrSkippyJ]

I just reread the OP's first few threads, he simply stated that he thought the lvl3's had woven leads and that he wished CJ would have told him they didn't.

If you're going to offer up a bunch of options take the 2-3 minutes to explain them. Everyone will be happy in the end and threads like this won't happen. Then I'll have to find something else to do when it's slow at work

They DO have woven leads. They DON'T have stitched leads. All of DCs subs come with woven leads and this is the problem. The customer got exactly what he asked for, how could anyone know before hand he didn't know what woven leads are.

Now you're going back to what the OP's initial problem was. If there was a listing of available options, he could see that woven leads were not stitched leads.

Looking at this I can see both sides of this. And to be honest, I do wish DC was more up front about what is available.

Someone raised Fi as an example. The problem with that is, you go to Fi's site and you can see your avaliable options.

Want a BL with a 4 inch coil? Right there. Want a 10 inch BTL? Ain't happening.

Going to DCs site, you'd think getting a level 5 10 was impossible. We all know that isn't the case.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying this is 100% on DC. All it would have taken was for the OP to go check out a couple build logs and he would have seen 3s with their tinsels unsewn. It wouldn't have taken much effort to discover the info he's looking for.

But the same way I'm only going to spend my hard earned cash on a product when I know exactly what I'm getting, companies could do more to part a fool and his money. I mean if I can see exactly what I'm getting with a different subwoofer, as opposed to your product where I have to hunt down what it is I want, well...that may be a missed sale.

It would be nice if it was easier to check out the options from DC. Make it easier for us, the consumers, to see what's available. On the other hand, DC may want people to just go with a higher level sub rather than try to modify a lower level to have higher performance. Probably have less failures running level 4s on 1k than level 3s upgraded on 1k. People already put way more power than RMS to DC subs anyway, this would just make people go even more extreme, and probably people who don't need too. If you are confusing your self on woven vs stitched tinsel leads, maybe you don't need to be trying to over power subs yet

[MrSkippyJ]

you mean stitched or woven? as far as I can tell all of their subs come with woven (heavy duty interweaved according to the website) tinsel leads. None of the descriptions mention anything about stitched tinsel leads, so that must have been an assumption on your part.

The "Heavy duty interweaved" leads is describing the quality of the lead wire itself not how it is applied to the speaker. Some DC products come with "fee floating" woven leads (lvl3s) and some come with single/dual stitched woven leads (lvl4/XL)

if they just did woven/stitched leads on all of their woofers then threads like this wouldnt happen

This is a great idea! but it will be the customer that eats the cost of stitching every single woofer. The level 2s and 3s are not top of the line woofers they are budget everyday groundpounding speakers and the price point reflects that. Majority of people in here will never use a level 3 in a manner that warrants the stitched leads over the free floating. In most cases, it is user error that will burn/break things whether they are stitched or not. So how about play the shit out of them and if you break the leads, upgrade! until that time, don't worry about it.

Lastly, If you are doing 1k+ to a level 3 you are wrong! get a level 4

If you are doing 2k+ on a level 4 you are wrong! get an XL

If you are doing 3k+ on an XL keep beating the piss out of it because it is my favorite woofer and indestructible

-Drew

This is what I was trying to say right above here.

and

The "Heavy duty interweaved" leads is describing the quality of the lead wire itself not how it is applied to the speaker. Some DC products come with "fee floating" woven leads (lvl3s) and some come with single/dual stitched woven leads (lvl4/XL)

Right, that is what I was saying. The only mention of tinsel leads I saw on their website was about being interweaved. Not on a single description was there a mention of how they were applied.

[BJD3]

except we aren't talking about options like you get on a car where a customer has no idea you can get the lighted cup holders. We are talking about options that increase performance that you SHOULD know about if you plan on getting more out of a speaker than is normally available.

I disagree, and to be honest, that's an argument in my favor. If I'm buying a car, with the internet being what it is today, its damn simple to find out what options are available. I'm not aware of a manufacture currently making cars that doesn't have one of the build your own features. This is more similar to how Fi handles customization.

In this case, the customer was OK with the 600RMS rating on the speakers so there was no need for upgrading tinsel leads. The unstitched leads handle that fine and he simply thought they came stitched. He isn't losing out on anything other than the way the look if he happens to invert them. There was no need to upgrade, if he had planned on putting more power to them he would have asked what he needed in order to do that. Then the salesman can say what about this option and that option.

I'll grant this one. In his situation he doesn't need the extra power handling capacity. By the same token, I'd feel mighty ripped off if I bought something expecting one thing and got something else. Regardless of whether or not something was promised.

If he is planning to run them significantly over their rated RMS, he either needed to buy level 4s OR upgrade some of the parts of the level 3s. Since he hasn't mentioned either to us or at all that he plans on over powering them my guess is that he isn't.

Upgrading tinsel leads would have been a waste of his money and a shoddy way to run a business.

I'm a fool with money. If I'm dead set on wasting money, the shoddy way of running the business would be to leave that money on the table.

Tell me I don't really need the option. Then if I still insist upon it, let me have it.

However, I can't give you money if I'm unaware that something exists.

To return to the car analogy, if I walk into a Chevy dealership and want the GS Vette, should the dealer try and talk me down to a standard Corvette? I will likely never visit a track. If I walk in to buy a Silverado should he try and talk me into a Cobalt? 90% of the time, the only person in the vehicle will be myself. I don't really need a bed. Suburban? I'm not hauling around a family.

See where I'm going with this?

[dwright27]

Just like ordering a pizza, if you don't say you want pineapples you don't get them.

As a salesman/rep, when someone says I want a level 3, I sell them just that. A level 3. They want upgraded spiders, I'll add the upgraded spiders.

We aren't psychics to read your mind that you want a stiff spider with stitched leads.

Get real MLstrass

[etaks_crew]

My xls didn'thave woven leads no slap at all

[CJ18]

I dont know if the Level 4s have sewn leads, but the Xls and 5s come with dual sewn leads. You will be perfectly fine with those leads an 800w. I am going to be putting over 1000w on the same leads.

[BJD3]

I dont know if the Level 4s have sewn leads, but the Xls and 5s come with dual sewn leads. You will be perfectly fine with those leads an 800w. I am going to be putting over 1000w on the same leads.

They do.

EDIT:Unless something changed from a year ago.

[MrSkippyJ]

except we aren't talking about options like you get on a car where a customer has no idea you can get the lighted cup holders. We are talking about options that increase performance that you SHOULD know about if you plan on getting more out of a speaker than is normally available.

I disagree, and to be honest, that's an argument in my favor. If I'm buying a car, with the internet being what it is today, its damn simple to find out what options are available. I'm not aware of a manufacture currently making cars that doesn't have one of the build your own features. This is more similar to how Fi handles customization.

In this case, the customer was OK with the 600RMS rating on the speakers so there was no need for upgrading tinsel leads. The unstitched leads handle that fine and he simply thought they came stitched. He isn't losing out on anything other than the way the look if he happens to invert them. There was no need to upgrade, if he had planned on putting more power to them he would have asked what he needed in order to do that. Then the salesman can say what about this option and that option.

I'll grant this one. In his situation he doesn't need the extra power handling capacity. By the same token, I'd feel mighty ripped off if I bought something expecting one thing and got something else. Regardless of whether or not something was promised.

If he is planning to run them significantly over their rated RMS, he either needed to buy level 4s OR upgrade some of the parts of the level 3s. Since he hasn't mentioned either to us or at all that he plans on over powering them my guess is that he isn't.

Upgrading tinsel leads would have been a waste of his money and a shoddy way to run a business.

I'm a fool with money. If I'm dead set on wasting money, the shoddy way of running the business would be to leave that money on the table.

Tell me I don't really need the option. Then if I still insist upon it, let me have it.

However, I can't give you money if I'm unaware that something exists.

To return to the car analogy, if I walk into a Chevy dealership and want the GS Vette, should the dealer try and talk me down to a standard Corvette? I will likely never visit a track. If I walk in to buy a Silverado should he try and talk me into a Cobalt? 90% of the time, the only person in the vehicle will be myself. I don't really need a bed. Suburban? I'm not hauling around a family.

See where I'm going with this?

You are right, but my analogy was bad. My point was from a salesmans point of view, if the guy wants to use the product according to original specs, there is no reason to suggest upgrades other than the salesman wants to make more money. Now if the guy insists on doing it anyway, that is a different story. But to suggest and upgrade when one isn't needed is what I was calling shoddy business. Let a fool spend all he wants but don't trick him into spending more than he needs.