We have all helped to kill the local dealers...

[Johnny248]

The only time that I will use a local shop is when it comes to messing with any factory wiring in one of my vehicles. I fully understand that shops have overhead and have to keep the lights on, but they have to adapt to survive. The way to make money as a shop is by word of mouth. If you give good service and a fair price, I am going to send you business when someone asks me where they can get something done. Selling for full blown retail and then charging $60+ per hour to install is not a good way to get people to send you business.

Two more things... Off subject, I've been waiting to order a 12" L2 woofer. Are they available yet?

And as far as install labor goes, what would you consider fair? Car dealers charge anywhere from $90-115 /hr for mechanical labor here, and independents are in the $75-90 /hr. What is a good confident installers time worth these days???

[jbondox]

This was a pretty good read (as insightful), but I also visit a place on the net where shop owners complain about the clientele. you can pretty much replace shop with customer and customer with shop and it would read the same.

I am content with the way I do business for now but always look to increase the business, so reading this turns the gears in my head, not saying that I could accomidate anyones needs with 100% professionalism right now as I am stretched to the max. But future endeavours possibly.

Plus you have Ray on here from Fresno that seems to help a lot of people out, you can always have him as your goto backup plan.

[Johnny248]

Don't call it young kid stuff, please. I'm only 17 and my current build is 7KW and a Level 5. Does my age make that young kid stuff too?

Not trying to offend anyone, or singling anyone out. It is 100% fact that there are target markets for everything. For instance, Michelin tires are marketed towards educated, professional, upper-middle & middle class customers, where BF Groodrich targets younger, enthusiast drivers. Even though both are part of the same company. That being said, car audio brands and labels are marketed the same way.

That's bad ass that you have a build going like that. You most likely have more money and gear in your system at 17 than I do at 33 making 5x the income as you. The fact is that the majority (but not all) of highschool-ish kids (at least around here) are riding with low cost affordable sounds in their trunk. Most are looking to spend a couple-few hundred dollars to have some bass in their cars. Not thousands of dollars building a serious system. A pair of MTX 12"s and a matching amp are pretty common. Or a couple RF P1 or Kicker Comp's. You just don't see younger people with that type of money into their cars. Most of them work part time, and have school to worry about also.

[Johnny248]

This was a pretty good read (as insightful), but I also visit a place on the net where shop owners complain about the clientele. you can pretty much replace shop with customer and customer with shop and it would read the same.

I am content with the way I do business for now but always look to increase the business, so reading this turns the gears in my head, not saying that I could accomidate anyones needs with 100% professionalism right now as I am stretched to the max. But future endeavours possibly.

Plus you have Ray on here from Fresno that seems to help a lot of people out, you can always have him as your goto backup plan.

Nothing is cooler than walking into a good shop. Car audio, performance, power sport, doesn't matter. If your shop is clean, looks taken care of, tries to do a good job on keeping up with product trends and technology, AND (this is key) have an owner or employees who LOVE what they do, and love to talk, eat, breath, car audio just like the customer who is excited to be around all of this cool stuff. That is what is missing these days...

[CJ18]

The only time that I will use a local shop is when it comes to messing with any factory wiring in one of my vehicles. I fully understand that shops have overhead and have to keep the lights on, but they have to adapt to survive. The way to make money as a shop is by word of mouth. If you give good service and a fair price, I am going to send you business when someone asks me where they can get something done. Selling for full blown retail and then charging $60+ per hour to install is not a good way to get people to send you business.

Two more things... Off subject, I've been waiting to order a 12" L2 woofer. Are they available yet?

And as far as install labor goes, what would you consider fair? Car dealers charge anywhere from $90-115 /hr for mechanical labor here, and independents are in the $75-90 /hr. What is a good confident installers time worth these days???

I will send you a PM as soon as I get done typing this.

I think labor cost should be based on the market and area that you are in. For where I live, $60+ an hour is fucking ridiculous, now in a bigger city or hell Cali for example, that may be dirt cheap due to cost of living being so much more.

I also think the labor cost should reflect who is doing the work. Why the fuck am I going to pay top dollar for some new installer fresh out of school with little to no experience. Now if I go to Rays shop(Audio Innovations, Fresno) and Ray is doing an install for me, I definitely understand and have no problem paying top dollar for an install. Someone with a proven track record and you know you are going to get top notch professional work can charge more because you are getting exactly what you are paying for. Its like me wanting to charge the same to do an install as Ray. I dont have nearly the knowledge nor skill that he does and shouldnt be paid like I do.

For me the local dealers just screw themselves out of business by being unfair, uneducated assholes(this statement does not apply to all shops). The good shops are going to stay in business because they are fair with their prices and do quality work.

[Ray]

Im actually considered very cheap for the work done.

As i am repetedly told by other 12v installers/owners

I knowhow hard it is to get a good job done, but as ive said before, let me know where you are and i will try to find you a very legit trust worthy shop around you.

I have a ton of contacts and know most of the best installers/shops in the country.

[CstrokerV]

wish there was quality shops around here... last time i went into our local shop was waste of my time just needed a box built 2.5 cubes sealed and amp install cause i was to lazy to do it myself welll 8 hours later (had an Appointment too plus was there earliy the day before when i made the appointment so they knew they had to build a box) it was finally done wtf i understand glue needs to dry but damn ........ needed some wire once said they'll have a guy run to another shop they had to pick it up(45 minutes away) ... 3 days later they finally called and said they got it.. if i would of know my 7 dollars a foot 0 gauge wasn't worth there time i would of ordered it online and got it cheaper and got it in the same time frame... mind you this was at least 4 years .. anyways they treated me like i was ignorant too so i don't see me ever going there again... have another local does wheels and bags too... went there once or twice because they sell mmats proaudio and wanted one of there amps but they didnt have it in stock... the shop (well owner) owes my brother inlaw money for a tattoo he did and supposedly they batched an install weather bags or stereo and a guys car burnt down not sure if this is true though... Ah which reminds me a coworker had to take them to court because they fed up his rims and tried to say he did it.. good thing he took it to another place and took pictures and crap to prove it was from the install and not him he got his money back then some... any ways if the owner is there and seems like an arrogant prick thats a turn off to buy from them

[Ray]

Our basic labor rate for basic wiring etc is 70.00 per hour.

Our custom or advanced install rate starts at 125 per hour.

There are guys in the US charging in excess of 250 per hour and I feel those few are worth every penny.

What i do is just a drop in the bucket of custom install.

I sure try but there are some guys that make me look like a 3yr old doing fab work.

I love that some of you understand the difference from going to someone that does tint, headlights, paint, vehicle wraps, lowering, and car audio vs. going to a specialist.

Just like if you needed heart surgery, would you rather go to a walk in clinic because he went to med school too, and could probably do the task or go to a specialist heart surgeon?

..... Exactly

And which one will cost you more?

[1996BLKBauer]

I cannot disagree more with this post, I'm sorry. My local shop in northern IL (Absolute Sound) has been awesome, sure there prices are not the cheapest, but these guys aim to please. I have gotten the whole take your number, and I'll call you back, guess what they called me back. I have bought my Head Unit, Door Speakers, Sub Amp, some Cable , and the dist blocks all from my store, heck they even gave me sale price on all the items, even though I missed the sale by 2 weeks.

Now I understand not everybody's local shop is as good, but my shop has been awesome to me. I will always go back. I even spoke to the guys there, and they delt with my stupid questions for hours. I'll be heading back there on Friday for some 14gauge wire, some shielded RCA's and to grab my Dist. blocks.

[crispy_chick3n]

there are 3 shops in my area. one i wouldnt go to even if my life depended on it, and the other two are alright. one of em i can literally go into sit down and bullshit with the guys for hours, and its a great time. the owner of the shop is almost always there, and he is a cool guy. when i do the big 3 on any of my vehicles i can just walk in and be like "hey mark can i grab some 1/0 out of the scrap bin?" i throw him like 5-10 bucks and get all the wire i need. i shop there constantly. not always for big ticket items. sometimes for decals, shirts, hats, and other little stuff, but however when i do go there for big ticket items, mark will cut me a hell of a package deal. it makes me feel great to support a shop where you can go in and chill for a bit, grab a beer and some equipment, and leave knowing you have a great local shop with great people. however with every good shop there is usualy a shitty shop. i went into this shop because they deal RF and i wanted them to test my t1000 after i attempted to make repairs on it, and if it was bad i was going to see of they could send it out to RF to get it fixed if i threw them a little cash. the guy just flat out told me no. he said that he doesnt like people who dont buy stuff from them, and then expect them to do stuff for free. when not even a week before that i bought the bass knob for that amp, and an alarm. fu*kin dick. iwont ever set foot in there again if he is workin there. the other shop is kind of like a mix between the two, but it really depends on the person you talk to. some are cool, some are dicks, but all in all it is still a good shop. lots of good installs come out of there, and im talkin like they build all their boxes in house to the specs of the subs. no prefab boxes. if you want a box you goin to have to wait a couple days or more, but it is worth it.

/rant