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Fact and Science have NO place in Car Audio!


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i do have a question of my own

it pertains to multiple grounds to the frame

what is a good baseline for determining how many grounds you need to the frame?

My best guess would be as many as the number of power runs yes?

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I hope not to make this into a big pissing match but Tony's (haha, thats funny to say it since both of you are Tony) What if you used a voice coil out in the open as your load on an amp? Now I have never done this to test it but would your power factor be closer to 1.0? The reason I ask this is that I know your resistance changes with a voice coil being exposed to magnetism when it is in the gap but if its just sitting out and away from a magnetic source would it make a difference?

I know the ad-1 is still the ONLY way to get it right compared to "clamping" because the chances of you getting your clamp and multimeter to read at the same time without any differences in the signal being read are impossible with the different refresh rates, differences in phases being read, etc. I just more of the less wonder about that power factor if you use a voice coil which is in essence a resistor with how its wired up and being in the open if it would affect your results.

2004 GMC Envoy1 XS power S3400 batt under the hood and 4 XS Power D3100's battery installed in the rear by the amps0 gauge power wire from front to backAlpine iva-w205 touchscreen dvd/cd/mp3/ipod/am/fm/gps headunitSundown Audio SAX-200.4 amp for my mids and highs8 gauge speaker wire from amp to woofer270 amp Mechman AltRockford Fosgate T1652-s component speakersRockford Fosgate 3Sixty.2 sound processorRca's from Rockford Fosgate and Monster Cable14 gauge speaker wire for the mids and highs1 18" Ascendant Audio SMD Dual 1 ohm with custom Black & Blue carbon fiber and hand signed dustcapBox: 5.66 cubic feet net volume box tuned to 30.13Hz with 1.5" wide wooden dowels and 1.5" thick baffle1 DC Audio 5.0k amp wired to .5 ohms nominal with an imp rise of 1.35 ohms for the single AA SMD 18"Future Vision 8000k 50w bi-xenon projector HID's with 4300k 35w fog lightsLink to my build: Buildupdates/progress

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This thread makes me happy!!

I wont say why ;)

David got to molest the AD-1 last week :D ^^^

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I hope not to make this into a big pissing match but Tony's (haha, thats funny to say it since both of you are Tony) What if you used a voice coil out in the open as your load on an amp? Now I have never done this to test it but would your power factor be closer to 1.0? The reason I ask this is that I know your resistance changes with a voice coil being exposed to magnetism when it is in the gap but if its just sitting out and away from a magnetic source would it make a difference?

I know the ad-1 is still the ONLY way to get it right compared to "clamping" because the chances of you getting your clamp and multimeter to read at the same time without any differences in the signal being read are impossible with the different refresh rates, differences in phases being read, etc. I just more of the less wonder about that power factor if you use a voice coil which is in essence a resistor with how its wired up and being in the open if it would affect your results.

The only problem with that is the inductance of the voice coil. Voice coils present a reactive load to the output of an audio amplifier. This is actually the premise of the design of the AudioGraph Power Cube, which is an instrumental tool in the design of an amplifier. There really just isn't any way that one can "clamp" and get meaningful results. Again, this "baseline" was established incorrectly. There's just no way around this.

The car audio industry is currently inundated with non-truths. Isn't it about time that we gather a collective that will challenge these fallacies with fact?

Tony Candela - SMD Sales & Marketing
Email me at [email protected] to learn about becoming an SMD Partner!

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Imagine for a second that you went to the local drag strip. You watched cars for years going in the 9s, 10s, 11s, and 12s. Then, someone says . . . "You know these cars are going faster here than at any other track . . . hmmm." They roll the track and determine that it really isn't 1,320 feet from the lights to the finish line . . . it's only 1,270 feet. That makes EVERY single time ever recorded at that track worthless. In addition, it really isn't possible to say with any certainty that one car is still a tenth faster than another because the car that was a tenth slower may have actually been able to make some (or all) of that up in the last 50 feet.

We, as car audio enthusiasts, should question methods that are questionable. Especially whey they defy the laws of physics.

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Tony Candela - SMD Sales & Marketing
Email me at [email protected] to learn about becoming an SMD Partner!

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I hope not to make this into a big pissing match but Tony's (haha, thats funny to say it since both of you are Tony) What if you used a voice coil out in the open as your load on an amp? Now I have never done this to test it but would your power factor be closer to 1.0? The reason I ask this is that I know your resistance changes with a voice coil being exposed to magnetism when it is in the gap but if its just sitting out and away from a magnetic source would it make a difference?

I know the ad-1 is still the ONLY way to get it right compared to "clamping" because the chances of you getting your clamp and multimeter to read at the same time without any differences in the signal being read are impossible with the different refresh rates, differences in phases being read, etc. I just more of the less wonder about that power factor if you use a voice coil which is in essence a resistor with how its wired up and being in the open if it would affect your results.

The only problem with that is the inductance of the voice coil. Voice coils present a reactive load to the output of an audio amplifier. This is actually the premise of the design of the AudioGraph Power Cube, which is an instrumental tool in the design of an amplifier. There really just isn't any way that one can "clamp" and get meaningful results. Again, this "baseline" was established incorrectly. There's just no way around this.

The car audio industry is currently inundated with non-truths. Isn't it about time that we gather a collective that will challenge these fallacies with fact?

Ohh, I didn't know how it would work if it was out of the motor. Thats just some random thought I had. I still would prefer to get the honeybadger's findings on my amp from a trusted company such as d'amore.

2004 GMC Envoy1 XS power S3400 batt under the hood and 4 XS Power D3100's battery installed in the rear by the amps0 gauge power wire from front to backAlpine iva-w205 touchscreen dvd/cd/mp3/ipod/am/fm/gps headunitSundown Audio SAX-200.4 amp for my mids and highs8 gauge speaker wire from amp to woofer270 amp Mechman AltRockford Fosgate T1652-s component speakersRockford Fosgate 3Sixty.2 sound processorRca's from Rockford Fosgate and Monster Cable14 gauge speaker wire for the mids and highs1 18" Ascendant Audio SMD Dual 1 ohm with custom Black & Blue carbon fiber and hand signed dustcapBox: 5.66 cubic feet net volume box tuned to 30.13Hz with 1.5" wide wooden dowels and 1.5" thick baffle1 DC Audio 5.0k amp wired to .5 ohms nominal with an imp rise of 1.35 ohms for the single AA SMD 18"Future Vision 8000k 50w bi-xenon projector HID's with 4300k 35w fog lightsLink to my build: Buildupdates/progress

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I run a cap and LOVE it. While I do agree that sometimes you might see more benefit per dollar with a battery over a cap, you proved that they still help. For me they totally flattened out my voltage. It would fluctuate down to battery voltage (15v) at times and other times to alt voltage (15.8-15.9v) when the demand *barely* exceeded the output of the alt. Now I hold a solid 15.8-15.9v full tilt and the voltage doesn't really move lol.

I can also vouch for the negative run. I did a single negative run in my car (in addition to the frame ground) and noticed no difference in score, no difference in sound, no change in front-rear voltage drop, and I clamped the run of cable and out of 250a or so of draw, it was only carrying 3a of it. Good to know that I would see more performance out of another positive run than another negative run.

Regarding clamping: No it isn't totally accurate. But it can get you in enough of a ballpark to be able to see what's going on and easily diagnose/compare things if you do it with a known clean signal.

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