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Its a fact that the dmm and clamp wont figure in power factor. But at the end of the day 99% of users only care about the end result and not so much how your arrived there.

Hence back wood hill billy rigged fixes.. if it "works", who cares how kinda logic.

So if you come up with 783va vs 779w most ppl simply do not care how you got there or how unreliable the va number is.. all they know is the correct undisputable method is prohivitively more expensive. As long as that remains true, getting the masses to covert to the truth will always remain a struggle.

Smd/ ce products are actually really damn good. And its nice the kits come sorted with everything you need and half assembled, but if china still sell what appears to be a close alternative ie:. Stinger or ebay meters or cheap harbor freight clamps and stuff alot of ppl find it difficult to justify spending 300% more or something.

All ppl care about is the bottom line. Cost. Its proven over and over. Even if they end up spending or replacing more later down the road.

Setup:


2010 Hyundai Elantra


Factory Unit via 4 chan NVX LOC


Excessive Amperage "H/O" Alt


Xs D3400/ Xs XP3000


Big 3. 2 Runs of +, 2 Runs of -


DD M3b and 2 12" AQ HDC4s

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  • 2 months later...

Imagine for a second that you went to the local drag strip. You watched cars for years going in the 9s, 10s, 11s, and 12s. Then, someone says . . . "You know these cars are going faster here than at any other track . . . hmmm." They roll the track and determine that it really isn't 1,320 feet from the lights to the finish line . . . it's only 1,270 feet. That makes EVERY single time ever recorded at that track worthless. In addition, it really isn't possible to say with any certainty that one car is still a tenth faster than another because the car that was a tenth slower may have actually been able to make some (or all) of that up in the last 50 feet.

We, as car audio enthusiasts, should question methods that are questionable. Especially whey they defy the laws of physics.

in regards to this analogy, when it comes to the "drag strip", yes it would be true that then every car that ever raced there would be null, but only BECAUSE there are other tracks in which the distance from start to finish was actually different/all the same there. But when it comes to the car audio world, every car that has ever had to be clamped for USACI or dbdrag in order to compete, had to use something in order to clamp all these amps. And a lot of these classes require they are clamped at the time of the run. Every time i have ever been to a competition, they used a clamp test with a multimeter and a clamp, i have never seen an AD-1 at an officially sponsored event. so if every record ever set, on every track ever, was wrong, then technically they were all still judged on the same scale, so although the clamp test is incorrect in determining true RMS power output, i don't think its right to say all past accomplishment set by these competitors should be nullified or something to that degree, because all were... incorrectly... judged the same at least.

I just realized that this post had been revived a few times, and maybe there have been advances i have missed, but hopefully it still gets seen

Fidelity

Built to Last

Team Sound Asleep

24Runner Build Log: http://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/196657-24runner-sleeper-system-lots-of-fi-neo-dd-focal-new-video-w-juicebox-lithium/

2 x 12" Fi BTL N2 / 2 x 12" Fi BTL N3

2 DD M3b

Maxwell 2.7V 3000F Supercapacitors

Pioneer DEH-80prs

Focal P165 V30 components

Rockford Fosgate T-400.4

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So, we're back to measuring amplifier power with a yardstick . . .

Guys, if Albert Einstein himself measured your amplifier's output via "clamping" it's still wrong / incorrect / invaluable / worthless. Therefore it can't be the basis of any comparative analysis. . . . "Hey, I measured my amp wrong. Now let's measure your amp wrong and see who's amp is more powerful." Does that make ANY sense at all?

If I was at an official event and witnessed this, I'd be laughing my ass off. I mean they don't use Fisher Price microphones to determine SPL do they? They're obviously not using the correct equipment for such measurements because they don't know it's available.

Tony Candela - SMD Sales & Marketing
Email me at [email protected] to learn about becoming an SMD Partner!

CEAES_468.gif

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Imagine for a second that you went to the local drag strip. You watched cars for years going in the 9s, 10s, 11s, and 12s. Then, someone says . . . "You know these cars are going faster here than at any other track . . . hmmm." They roll the track and determine that it really isn't 1,320 feet from the lights to the finish line . . . it's only 1,270 feet. That makes EVERY single time ever recorded at that track worthless. In addition, it really isn't possible to say with any certainty that one car is still a tenth faster than another because the car that was a tenth slower may have actually been able to make some (or all) of that up in the last 50 feet.

We, as car audio enthusiasts, should question methods that are questionable. Especially whey they defy the laws of physics.

in regards to this analogy, when it comes to the "drag strip", yes it would be true that then every car that ever raced there would be null, but only BECAUSE there are other tracks in which the distance from start to finish was actually different/all the same there. But when it comes to the car audio world, every car that has ever had to be clamped for USACI or dbdrag in order to compete, had to use something in order to clamp all these amps. And a lot of these classes require they are clamped at the time of the run. Every time i have ever been to a competition, they used a clamp test with a multimeter and a clamp, i have never seen an AD-1 at an officially sponsored event. so if every record ever set, on every track ever, was wrong, then technically they were all still judged on the same scale, so although the clamp test is incorrect in determining true RMS power output, i don't think its right to say all past accomplishment set by these competitors should be nullified or something to that degree, because all were... incorrectly... judged the same at least.

I just realized that this post had been revived a few times, and maybe there have been advances i have missed, but hopefully it still gets seen

Here you go:

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In a small town in the middle of nowhere, Jim runs the only auto repair shop in town. Jim is branching out into the world of high performance and has decided to measure his customer's engines in an effort to determine which of them is more powerful. Jim's not gonna' let his lack of knowledge get in the way of him making a few extra bucks.

Jim determines who's engine is more powerful via the following method:

- Jim's customers pull their vehicles into Jim's shop one at a time.

- Jim puts a calibrated B&K high SPL microphone on a stand at a distance of 1M from the rear of the vehicle.

- Owner revs the engine to 5,000 RPM.

- Jim records the SPL generated and plots this on the chart on the wall.

At the end of the day, Jim has collected SPL measurements from all of his customers. The vehicle that recorded the highest SPL is declared to have the most powerful engine.

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Tony Candela - SMD Sales & Marketing
Email me at [email protected] to learn about becoming an SMD Partner!

CEAES_468.gif

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The dog that barks the loudest should then most certainly bite the hardest right?


:peepwall:

Edited by rockFord_Expedition
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So, we're back to measuring amplifier power with a yardstick . . .

Guys, if Albert Einstein himself measured your amplifier's output via "clamping" it's still wrong / incorrect / invaluable / worthless. Therefore it can't be the basis of any comparative analysis. . . . "Hey, I measured my amp wrong. Now let's measure your amp wrong and see who's amp is more powerful." Does that make ANY sense at all?

If I was at an official event and witnessed this, I'd be laughing my ass off. I mean they don't use Fisher Price microphones to determine SPL do they? They're obviously not using the correct equipment for such measurements because they don't know it's available.

That isn't the reference i was trying to make i was trying to reference the fact that the competitors who worked to do the numbers they did (spl not watts), shouldn't just be seen as trash because the system they had to use was flawed. its time to grow away from it, but i still respect their work.

Now this is another question that been floating in my mind about this subject. It was asked earlier but the answer, albeit true, wasn't necessarily factual haha. Before the AD-1, and the other couple products you mentioned earlier that were created to try and accurately calculate the power factor that were super crazy expensive (Audiograph Powercube and Audio Precision). How was the term, WATTS, for lack of a better word... invented/come to use so flexibly. I can't seem to word it properly but ill try my best. Since most people have been testing for VA, clipped signal or not) why do we call it watts, and not VAPF - (V)(A)(PF) or even just call it like it is and say VA, how did the audio world come to accept lying and just calling it watts. I know it probably wasn't any one person or even a exact time it can be traced back to, I'm just hoping for a little more insight as to how the mishap came to be. and one more question, This thread is mathematically sound and provable as you two have continued to shown/shut up to everyone in the past 2 years since it was started. why are 99% of bass heads still so wrong and using the incorrect technique, Ive only recently been educated on this topic in particular, but it didn't take long for me to KNOW that its correct, the proof is in the numbers and thats all there is to it. But in the last two years I've seen many SMD members in person who should know this still using the wrong method. PEOPLE NEED TO SPREAD THE WORD. and this thread needs to be pinned or restarted in general audio or something so more people can see it.

Fidelity

Built to Last

Team Sound Asleep

24Runner Build Log: http://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/196657-24runner-sleeper-system-lots-of-fi-neo-dd-focal-new-video-w-juicebox-lithium/

2 x 12" Fi BTL N2 / 2 x 12" Fi BTL N3

2 DD M3b

Maxwell 2.7V 3000F Supercapacitors

Pioneer DEH-80prs

Focal P165 V30 components

Rockford Fosgate T-400.4

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Because when a closed minded person believes something you won't change their minds no matter how much proof you present.

Edited by Broke_Audio_Addict
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That being said a lot of people's definition of "music" is a clipped 30 hz sine wave with some 80 IQ knuckle head grunting about committing crimes and his genitals.

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