FREE EDUCATION

[Awhitewookie]

People choose to only accept the facts that appeal to their way of thinking. No one here will change anyone else's opinion.

I absorbed the information in the video and thought "cool, I'll buy ofc next time". I am not gonna preach to people why they should think like me

[mrd6]

Only the best for you Mr. Elitist Audio Man

the man is teaching you the difference. You need to have your pencil and note pad out. I also think you should show some respect. He hasn't posted any smart ass comments your direction.

Not in exactly my direction no. More of a blanket statement involving everyone who runs CCA, uses the term "box rise," or uses a class D amp and calls it "better." Here is the thing, I am all for knowing the science and math, but I am also wise enough to know that in practice the gains or losses are minute.

I hate to sit here and watch people hear everything said by him and take it as gospel.

And don't get it wrong, I respect Tony, but I won't have people thinking that there is only one way to do something and that if they aren't doing it that way they are wrong.

There's always more than one way to do something. Some better than others. Often with any product there are good better and best versions. The man is teaching the ideal way, or best way of doing things. His ways aren't the only way, but why would you show someone how to do something in an inferior way? I feel like I learn something every time I watch one of his videos.

Then why is he not talking about silver 1/0?? It is a much better conductor after all

Or two runs of CCA for that matter since it would result in lower transmission losses than a single run of OFC...two runs of CCA has a resistance of .085mohms per foot according to the values Tony was working off of...so if CCA is half the cost, wouldnt two runs of CCA actually be superior to one run of OFC by the exact same logic that one run of OFC is greater than one of CCA?

Thats always been my logic on the matter...i'll stay tuned to see if Tony has any other reasons for his statement that it is "not okay," there must be something else to it that I am just not thinking of...?

Edited September 20, 2013 by mrd6

[meade916]

just curious, you took out perfectly good OFC and replaced it with exact runs of CCA? Why would you do that? color change on the wire jacket? Was the OFC bad?

The system was all coming out, I was (and did) going to rip everything out down to bare metal. My actual point was to prove using the CCA would show a decrease in performance and score...to my surprise it didn't.

But I really wish people would stop taking it negatively if and when someone has a difference of opinion. I haven't seen anyone being disrespectful to Tony, but more and more it seems like once you disagree with someone or something you're an enemy of the state. A debate can be healthy for knowledge and users. In audio, there is a big difference between paper and application and it's good to see how these hammer out. Can't we just debate with offending people?

a difference in opinion isn't calling Tony a smart ass name. If i call you a fucktard know it all, is that just my opinion or would that chap your hide? I bet you wouldn't think that was a very nice opinion.

i don't think that, but i bet for a second, while you read that, you got heated. Probably wanna call me a dickhead shitwad back. Hopefully not though...but you get my point. Opinion and flat out disrespect are 2 different things. Internet people don't get that. At least ones who weren't raised to respect others.

[SnowDrifter]

Or two runs of CCA for that matter since it would result in lower transmission losses than a single run of OFC...two runs of CCA has a resistance of .085mohms per foot according to the values Tony was working off of...so if CCA is half the cost, wouldnt two runs of CCA actually be superior to one run of OFC by the exact same logic that one run of OFC is greater than one of CCA?

Thats always been my logic on the matter...i'll stay tuned to see if Tony has any other reasons for his statement that it is "not okay," there must be something else to it that I am just not thinking of...?

Even though the raw wire may be half the cost, you also need to factor in fuse holders and terminals. I've ran the numbers and found that they have roughly the same cost/performance ratio after taking that into consideration.

If you don't run fuses, that's a different story. But I wouldn't suggest that

[IH8PunkRok]

Back to what I was saying. If you mean to educate, educate without bias. Else you are just a salesman

tony doesn't sell wire.

Never said he did.

well you called him are accusing him of educating with "bias", and calling him a salesman......while he hasn't tried to sell you one single strand of OFC. He is teaching you the difference. You are quite the annoying one tonight huh? go rest your eyeballs, it is getting late.

This is super off topic, but hey, why not? He is a salesman not because of touting that only one wire should ever be bought, he is a salesman because he has influence. This influence he gained by stating other tech as inferior. AD-1 better than clamping. DD-1 better than an O-scope. This is fine, but what gets me is when it is said that these other methods are no longer even remotely correct. As if before everyone has done everything wrong in the past and if you don't do it the new way you are completely wrong and should be discredited.

"oh you clamped your amp? psh"

"you set your gains with an o-scope? Say bye bye to your speakers bro"

Those two examples I am not attributing to anyone specific, but this is the nature of a forum. The one guy with influence leans a certain way and they all follow. Why is it bad?

Economics.

Better materials = more money = less interest in purchasing products = less participation in the sport = death of car audio

Does anyone see why I argue now? Or am I just shouting at a wall here?

[WastedTalent]

So I'll be honest, haven't read much of the thread cause seems butthurt central in here. And haven't seen Tony's video as busy can be. I'll try to get to it tonight/this morning. But... my opinion is this. CCA is little less than half the cost of OFC. But, CCA is more than half the amperage rating of OFC. So unless OFC is required due to classes (limits on how many runs) or too many tight fits, why wouldn't you do CCA?

You can get 2x the amount of CCA than you can of OFC for the same price. 100ft of CCA = 50 ft of OFC, based on price (and CCA is still cheaper. Get maybe 110 ft or so actually). Since CCA can handle more than 1/2 the amperage OFC can, why not? I see if it's a requirement due to classes or you have a monster system that needs tons of runs and you can't fit that many under panels. But I mean those systems, such as mine, where the entire system (subs, mids, highs, ect) is around 1800 watts on a good day. Think CCA would be more cost effective.

Again, my opinion and that's without reading majority of this thread due to butthurt, and without seeing Tony's video due to 16 hour work days + driving and all.

[rockFord_Expedition]

just curious, you took out perfectly good OFC and replaced it with exact runs of CCA? Why would you do that? color change on the wire jacket? Was the OFC bad?

The system was all coming out, I was (and did) going to rip everything out down to bare metal. My actual point was to prove using the CCA would show a decrease in performance and score...to my surprise it didn't.But I really wish people would stop taking it negatively if and when someone has a difference of opinion. I haven't seen anyone being disrespectful to Tony, but more and more it seems like once you disagree with someone or something you're an enemy of the state. A debate can be healthy for knowledge and users. In audio, there is a big difference between paper and application and it's good to see how these hammer out. Can't we just debate with offending people?

a difference in opinion isn't calling Tony a smart ass name. If i call you a fucktard know it all, is that just my opinion or would that chap your hide? I bet you wouldn't think that was a very nice opinion.i don't think that, but i bet for a second, while you read that, you got heated. Probably wanna call me a dickhead shitwad back. Hopefully not though...but you get my point. Opinion and flat out disrespect are 2 different things. Internet people don't get that. At least ones who weren't raised to respect others.

You called me a fucker and I called you an asshole on the phone today while ordering my 3 meters, and there were no hard feelings, we actually laughed at it. Was actually the one and only time we ever talked on the phone. Example of 2 people not getting all ass hurt and know the difference between respect and disrespect

[rockFord_Expedition]

Back to what I was saying. If you mean to educate, educate without bias. Else you are just a salesman

tony doesn't sell wire.

Never said he did.

well you called him are accusing him of educating with "bias", and calling him a salesman......while he hasn't tried to sell you one single strand of OFC. He is teaching you the difference. You are quite the annoying one tonight huh? go rest your eyeballs, it is getting late.

This is super off topic, but hey, why not? He is a salesman not because of touting that only one wire should ever be bought, he is a salesman because he has influence. This influence he gained by stating other tech as inferior. AD-1 better than clamping. DD-1 better than an O-scope. This is fine, but what gets me is when it is said that these other methods are no longer even remotely correct. As if before everyone has done everything wrong in the past and if you don't do it the new way you are completely wrong and should be discredited.

"oh you clamped your amp? psh"

"you set your gains with an o-scope? Say bye bye to your speakers bro"

Those two examples I am not attributing to anyone specific, but this is the nature of a forum. The one guy with influence leans a certain way and they all follow. Why is it bad?

Economics.

Better materials = more money = less interest in purchasing products = less participation in the sport = death of car audio

Does anyone see why I argue now? Or am I just shouting at a wall here?

A tool is a tool, no pun intended. You can use a dd-1 and still set your gains wrong if you use it incorrectly.

[meade916]

Back to what I was saying. If you mean to educate, educate without bias. Else you are just a salesman

tony doesn't sell wire.

Never said he did.

well you called him are accusing him of educating with "bias", and calling him a salesman......while he hasn't tried to sell you one single strand of OFC. He is teaching you the difference. You are quite the annoying one tonight huh? go rest your eyeballs, it is getting late.

This is super off topic, but hey, why not? He is a salesman not because of touting that only one wire should ever be bought, he is a salesman because he has influence. This influence he gained by stating other tech as inferior. AD-1 better than clamping. DD-1 better than an O-scope. This is fine, but what gets me is when it is said that these other methods are no longer even remotely correct. As if before everyone has done everything wrong in the past and if you don't do it the new way you are completely wrong and should be discredited.

"oh you clamped your amp? psh"

"you set your gains with an o-scope? Say bye bye to your speakers bro"

Those two examples I am not attributing to anyone specific, but this is the nature of a forum. The one guy with influence leans a certain way and they all follow. Why is it bad?

Economics.

Better materials = more money = less interest in purchasing products = less participation in the sport = death of car audio

Does anyone see why I argue now? Or am I just shouting at a wall here?

and yes, you are shouting at a wall and it is looking at you saying "fuck, you are annoying"

[BigManAC]

Tuned in!! its always good to be informed.