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One thing I think would be interesting to test: OVER wire a car. Burp a score, measure voltage drop.

With both OFC and CCA, test the minimum number of runs you need to maintain the same score. This might work better if someone had a bit more alt power. Something that can really strain some wire.

TeamHT I was thinking that even though you swapped out OFC for CCA and kept the same score, what is the minimum amount of wire you could get away with? I think that would be a more valid test. Especially looking at this with a savings perspective

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One thing I think would be interesting to test: OVER wire a car. Burp a score, measure voltage drop.

With both OFC and CCA, test the minimum number of runs you need to maintain the same score. This might work better if someone had a bit more alt power. Something that can really strain some wire.

TeamHT I was thinking that even though you swapped out OFC for CCA and kept the same score, what is the minimum amount of wire you could get away with? I think that would be a more valid test. Especially looking at this with a savings perspective

or i can real off 50 feet of each and test it on the dyno. I am sure if i don't, there are about 5 people with Dyno's that i know of that are about to soon.

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That's a good point but just look at 250' of OFC vs CCA, nope...I barely fuse and factor shipping to Alaska...the amount I saved was almost another 270 amp. I think 5 runs to 4 runs isn't a big difference but I'll try to do as much information gathering this time...

But when I finish my install I'm doing two runs from DC 370XP to D3100, with 4 runs pos and 4 runs negative to the back bank of 5 XP2500, 6 pos 6 negative to the AQ20 all CCA. I'm interested to see how this fares and will add an extra run or two if I need to. SHCA if that matters...

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I think both would be good tests

The amp dyno will let you see some hard numbers from the amp. And termlab testing will be good to see how it plays into our scores. Decibels, being a logarithmic scale, having different wiring with a difference of 300 watts between them may not even make a difference to the meter or ear.

And I know Tony will chime in with the math here. Or maybe he already has. I haven't had enough time to watch the video yet. I think that will lend a necessary third perspective on the subject.

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Some of you guys here are ridiculous...!

I won't name names but damn.....

Tony isn't inventing shit for a profit, he's creating tools that are affordable to most and elevating the common intellect.

He's simply stating theory, yet you guys think its voodoo.

Testing methods have been WRONG for years, he's trying like hell to get people in the right direction yet you think he's fooling you....

Would you rather be in the dark and be happy in your world of misconceptions or realize there were mistakes and use the correct methods?

I hate to break it to you, but testing AC electronics correctly can be expensive..... GET OVER IT!

Most electronics manufacturers spend THOUSANDS actually tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars to accurately test their equipment.

Tony has customized some of that equipment into pieces that most everyday people can afford which is damn impressive.

I have a professional LCR meter at work that cost $12k!

Tony's IMSG does a very similar function for $300...Bargain.

AC signals involve frequency which means there are varying impedances and phase changes.

Testing those signals requires a little knowledge and the right equipment which is not generally possible with generic multimeters.

Sorry to break it to you, but sometime change hurts...otherwise society keeps making the same mistakes.

Whew..ok I'm done.

;)

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Let's just say that you had access to two engines. One engine made 400hp and one made 500hp. The 500hp engine costs more money.

There would be no point at which one could say that the 400hp engine was superior to the 500hp engine, assuming horsepower was the only metric. However, one can rationalize why the 400hp engine is a better value but that still won't make it a 500hp engine.

How does that apply to this argument?

it doesnt. because you cant put 2 engines in one engine bay. would a 800hp engine that costs less than a 500hp engine be better? engines are a TERRIBLE analogy for this.

Better yet. Same car, you have a 400 HP motor for $4k and a 500 HP motor for $6k. I'd go 400 HP for $4k, then buy a blower for about $2-3k (S/C or turbo and cost is dependent on vehicle) and end up with more HP than the 500 HP. Of course, this is theory. Results may ALWAYS vary...as well as price. :ehh:

Anyways, back to learning. Thanks Tony. Granted it won't change the mind sets of most, but at least the info is there!

lol an engine that cost more, cost more for a reason. you just cant toss a blower or any power adder to a motor with cast steel internals(if you do you have to be very careful and keep an eye on the boost).. you can build a 400hp motor and a 500hp motor for the same cost .. what will make a engine cost more is the type of internals you use..

to better help this topic lets say the 500hp has forged internals and the 400hp has cast steel.. wont you rather get the more expensive and have a reliable engine. or cheap out and get an engine that will blow up the second you turn it 6500 rpm?

what im seeing here is that everyone is missing the point to what he is trying to say

That was kinda my point/ thought. (hence, results may vary) I see exactly what snafu was saying, but also see what others are saying. It's one of those...if you do this, you can also get this, but if I do this, it may work better, but I can't do that...and so on and so on. Just to many variables. If car audio (and engines) were direct and to the point with no variables (and difference of opinion), then it wouldn't be much of a hobby or competition. Straight forward and to the point seems less interesting.

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You mean like...actual application? I'm really hoping this science you are talking about actually shows an install and not just formulas on paper. That's my whole point, you call it broscience but I call it actual experience. Same with your fitness thread, but you know...no need for your shameless plug ;)

I'm talking about knowing why different factors act and interact with each other based on the thorough understanding of the subject, rather than "well it's worked fine for me this way so far". People that think "because it worked for me, that makes it right" harm any field in which they try to advise people. The mentality is "post hoc, ergo propter hoc".

Only the best for you Mr. Elitist Audio Man

the man is teaching you the difference. You need to have your pencil and note pad out. I also think you should show some respect. He hasn't posted any smart ass comments your direction.

Not in exactly my direction no. More of a blanket statement involving everyone who runs CCA, uses the term "box rise," or uses a class D amp and calls it "better." Here is the thing, I am all for knowing the science and math, but I am also wise enough to know that in practice the gains or losses are minute.

I hate to sit here and watch people hear everything said by him and take it as gospel.

And don't get it wrong, I respect Tony, but I won't have people thinking that there is only one way to do something and that if they aren't doing it that way they are wrong.

There's always more than one way to do something. Some better than others. Often with any product there are good better and best versions. The man is teaching the ideal way, or best way of doing things. His ways aren't the only way, but why would you show someone how to do something in an inferior way? I feel like I learn something every time I watch one of his videos.

Thank you for bringing some logic.

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Some of you guys here are ridiculous...!

I won't name names but damn.....

Tony isn't inventing shit for a profit, he's creating tools that are affordable to most and elevating the common intellect.

He's simply stating theory, yet you guys think its voodoo.

Testing methods have been WRONG for years, he's trying like hell to get people in the right direction yet you think he's fooling you....

Would you rather be in the dark and be happy in your world of misconceptions or realize there were mistakes and use the correct methods?

I hate to break it to you, but testing AC electronics correctly can be expensive..... GET OVER IT!

Most electronics manufacturers spend THOUSANDS actually tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars to accurately test their equipment.

Tony has customized some of that equipment into pieces that most everyday people can afford which is damn impressive.

I have a professional LCR meter at work that cost $12k!

Tony's IMSG does a very similar function for $300...Bargain.

AC signals involve frequency which means there are varying impedances and phase changes.

Testing those signals requires a little knowledge and the right equipment which is not generally possible with generic multimeters.

Sorry to break it to you, but sometime change hurts...otherwise society keeps making the same mistakes.

Whew..ok I'm done.

;)

Booooooo....Aye....Jamie....Get off the stage....no one cares....back to the discussion....:lol2:

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One thing I think would be interesting to test: OVER wire a car. Burp a score, measure voltage drop.

With both OFC and CCA, test the minimum number of runs you need to maintain the same score. This might work better if someone had a bit more alt power. Something that can really strain some wire.

TeamHT I was thinking that even though you swapped out OFC for CCA and kept the same score, what is the minimum amount of wire you could get away with? I think that would be a more valid test. Especially looking at this with a savings perspective

You can easily do this with smaller wire. It is scalable. Test using a 500 watt amp with 4 gauge wiring. Not much of an electrical strain.

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