CJ18 Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 I dont mind reposts 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorFade Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 ^^ please explain how its misleading if you are so smart. they come in here and post videos with facts supported by science and math while everyone else comes in here saying well clamping is how everyone does it so it must be true. that's like saying everything you read online is true or the well my brothers friends sisters boyfriend said this and so it must be true. sorry but facts are facts while all that other stuff has no supporting science or math behind it. I'm not bashing the dyno or the AMM-1. Or even taking up for clamping for that matter, but the way the test was done using the dyno for the clamp portion isn't the best way to illustrate the difference. Cody retested the amp. He videoed the clamped portion this time. This is a screen shot of the 900w clamp result. Pay particular attention to the wave on the scope-meter The dyno and AMM-1 stop reading at 1% THD. Does that look like 1% to you? Yeah... me neither. This is much closer. This is a screen shot of the same vid, but while the wave is still clean. That's 570w and MUCH closer to what the dyno and AMM-1 are seeing. Clamping is flawed because of the phase angle on reactive loads. But he isn't using a reactive load here, is he? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corona_jeff Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Wow.......is nice how the dyno and amm1 takes all the "what if" out of the equation of using the clamps. Makes thing a lot simpler for the average consumer and pros. Great job Partner. Get yours today. http://www.droppinhzcaraudio.com/smd-audio-multimeter-amm-p-269.html 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ18 Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 The point of this test wasnt to bash clamping, it was really to show the accuracy of the AMM1. Here is a breakdown of the test. Amp Dyno is being used to provide a 4Ω resistive load. On paper, the clamps, Dyno, and AMM1 should all agree on the same number since the load is resistive and the power factor is 100%. Here is where the tricky part comes in. If you are "clamping" using just a general DMM, there is no way for you to see where clipping occurs. Now if you use a nice Oscope, you can now see the sine wave. BUT you are having to rely on your eyes to tell you where clipping occurs to find out what the numbers are at this point to find your usable power. Once you take this into your vehicle and start using a subwoofer to create your load, now you run into phase angle which clamps cannot see. Overall the AMM1 does everything for you and make it MUCH MUCH easier. It is an all in 1 tool. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alaskanzx5 Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 but he also mentioned that if there is anyone that uses tools that can do what he did in his second test it would be hardly anyone. most people don't have the tools to do such an accurate test to get more accurate results. that being said. 99% of people are not getting a true rms reading because of not having the correct tools from what he was saying. besides even at a 570w result in that test its still not accurate. still proves that as of right now one of the most accurate ways is the amp dyno or amm1 and you helped prove that. Quote t1500bdcp 2 t2d4 15" 1 t600.4 1 t400.2 1 set p1 tweets singer alt, tons of wiring, smd vm-1, 80prs, back seat delete, still in the works, aiming for a 145-147 with the ability to play 25hz up to 50hz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herokight Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 so different amps/setups will have different % of difference between the dyno and clamp method right? or at least I would think it wouldn't always be a difference of 34.5%. just asking that so people don't see the vid and say o well if its only a difference of 34.5% then I can clamp and subtract the % difference to get the true rms. I could see that happening. great video once again though. glad you posted this meade, I didn't see the other thread so works for me. remember everyone, haters will keep on hating. some people are most likely seeing these vids about how clamping doesn't work because of its inaccurate results from the lack of actually understanding what they are doing imo are just upset because what they thought their setup was putting out isn't what the true rms output is. people don't like being proven wrong or told that the excepted way to do something is inaccurate and a thing of the past. I say let the haters hate while the rest of us thrive off of their hate to achieve better. I know when someone tells me I can do something I do it just to prove them wrong. D'amore had a vid showing why it's off. Something about phase differences. I haven't watched in a while but here: 1 Quote Lane AKA HeroKight '96 Jeep Cherokee Classic 4x4 R.I.P. Molliboo $200 for new tires, on a jeep!? Is she stealing them or building them with a heat gun and rubber bands? You hear that????That's a category 5 shit storm coming n8: hey you doing today. What's it like being a bitch? you can pm me if you'd like to explain why you arent one. Just like you did for your vs threads. ^^^Rules. Follow them.^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alaskanzx5 Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 thank you cj18, that's what I was trying to explain with my last post but you said it much better. in short what im seeing is that with out the proper equipment (which gets expensive just for a good scope) you cant get an accurate results from the clamping that most people do. it can be a more accurate test with the right tools at hand and more work but for the money the amm1 is a steal. all the scopes ive seen run around $300-400 for a nice one. don't forget the dmm and getting a test bench together to put a reactive load on the amp to get a true rms reading at a given load. Quote t1500bdcp 2 t2d4 15" 1 t600.4 1 t400.2 1 set p1 tweets singer alt, tons of wiring, smd vm-1, 80prs, back seat delete, still in the works, aiming for a 145-147 with the ability to play 25hz up to 50hz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ18 Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 ^^ please explain how its misleading if you are so smart. they come in here and post videos with facts supported by science and math while everyone else comes in here saying well clamping is how everyone does it so it must be true. that's like saying everything you read online is true or the well my brothers friends sisters boyfriend said this and so it must be true. sorry but facts are facts while all that other stuff has no supporting science or math behind it. I'm not bashing the dyno or the AMM-1. Or even taking up for clamping for that matter, but the way the test was done using the dyno for the clamp portion isn't the best way to illustrate the difference. Cody retested the amp. He videoed the clamped portion this time. This is a screen shot of the 900w clamp result. Pay particular attention to the wave on the scope-meter The dyno and AMM-1 stop reading at 1% THD. Does that look like 1% to you? Yeah... me neither. This is much closer. This is a screen shot of the same vid, but while the wave is still clean. That's 570w and MUCH closer to what the dyno and AMM-1 are seeing. Clamping is flawed because of the phase angle on reactive loads. But he isn't using a reactive load here, is he? The Dyno and Clamps are supposed to agree on this test. What happens here though is to find the point that clipping occurs, you have to be using a scope that can keep up with the sine wave. Most people who clamp do so using just a DMM with no way to see the point that clipping occurs. Even using the scope and being able to see the sine wave, it is very tough to get an exact reading of the highest point just before clipping occurs to know what your true useable power is. Based on what I was able to see with my eye when going back over the video, I can find 570w of clean power. But the Dyno and AMM1 see 651w of clean power. 81w might not be alot if we are talking in the range of 10000w, but when we are working in the 500-700w range, that represents alot of power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorFade Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 but he also mentioned that if there is anyone that uses tools that can do what he did in his second test it would be hardly anyone. most people don't have the tools to do such an accurate test to get more accurate results. that being said. 99% of people are not getting a true rms reading because of not having the correct tools from what he was saying. besides even at a 570w result in that test its still not accurate. still proves that as of right now one of the most accurate ways is the amp dyno or amm1 and you helped prove that. Did I argue against the accuracy of the AD-1 or AMM-1? Nope. *I* happen to be one of those people with the proper tools, so yeah... I take offense to the way clamping is getting shit on in this vid. If the vid was just about how awesome the AMM-1 is, I'd have just said, "Awesome. Can't wait to get mine." But the focus of the video is how far off the clamp is, when in reality... it's not. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DubNDodge Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 might be the model of a cheap clamp my guess is why its reading this? idk smd stuff is sweet stuff but somthings don't look right for the clamp my guess. You crack me up. Cheap meter? Do you even know who/ what Fluke is. Go do your homework. 2 Quote '01 Dodge Stratass Sealed Trunk Build Log 2008 Honda Fit Sport Build Log On 10/3/2013 at 10:00 AM, ROLEXrifleman said: Anyone who says they knew everything they wanted out of life at 19 can go suck a bag of dicks cause they are lying to themselves or brought up in a cult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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