Just a thought on batteries and charging systems.

[n8ball2013]

Another thing you have to look at is the purpose of the battery. Deep cycle batteries like the xs and kinetiks etc that are aimed at car audio have been designed to be discharged and recharged over and over again. A telecom battery or a battery used in an ups are meant to be charged and hold that voltage until power is killed and then provide enough power to maintain service until power is restored, switch to alternate power or gracefully power down the hosts. These are all factors to look at.

[Nathan @ XSpower]

Batteries do not store power over their resting voltage. Anything over their resting voltage is a residual charge and will be gone as soon as a load is placed on the battery.

would this be where good capacitors come into play

anyone else refreshing this page like a crackhead

Regular capacitors NO. Super Capacitors yes if you pair them correctly with the battery power you have and the amperage draw you have.

thanks nathan i know what i am doing for electrical now

i know this is off topic but will you guys ever start a line of super capacitors

I can neither confirm nor deny what is sitting on my desk

[rockFord_Expedition]

The amount and quality of lead in the battery determines the capacity of the battery. The grid pattern on the lead plates, intercell connectors, and internal design determines how quickly the battery can discharge that capacity.

For instance our 16V and 14V batteries. We have the light S version and the heavier D versions. They are the same physical size with the same internal design, but the S is lighter. Only weight to lighten the S version was to take lead out of the battery, which in return gives is less reserve capacity. You have a trade off with weight v/s capacity.

You can get more power per battery if you buss a bank of smaller batteries together, because bussing them together optimizes the internal pressure in the batteries. Now this means if you have 5 small batteries and buss them together each of those 5 batteries will individually produce more power than they each would standing by themselves. This however does not increase each individual batteries capacity.

Would LOVE, LOVE to learn more about this. Can you elaborate. More power...... as in voltage, discharge rate? Very curious.

[Swordlordboy1234]

Yeah, Lets keep this thread rolling!

[rockFord_Expedition]

i know this is off topic but will you guys ever start a line of super capacitors

I can neither confirm nor deny what is sitting on my desk

Mother of god.

Take my money.

[TRTC360]

True. I always question people who "don't have voltage drop" when they run big amplifiers but only a single alternator.

This is because they have so much box rise that the amp may be seeing 4+ ohms and not putting out enough power or drawing enough current to create that voltage drop.

perfect example is my own car. I ran a DC3.5k at 1ohm on a single g34 redtop and 180 amp alt for around 6 months with no issues. My pair of XFL 12's were in a box that was 3.5 cubic feet GROSS. And according to my understanding the smaller the box the more box rise, also around tuning is when you have the highest amount of box rise too. Box was tuned around 28hz, anything low I would hold low 13's to mid 12's full tilt, the second I played above 45hz I dropped down to high 10v.

[Nathan @ XSpower]

Mmmmmmmmmmm, me likey this thread

Keep in mind, as Nathan mentioned, batteries don't charge up to 14.4V.

They have an internal resistance to overcome which is why you need to charge at 14.4V in order to get a resting voltage of ~13V. That 1 volt or so is lost in the charging process.

Also as mentioned, caps (super) don't have this limitation and will hold power at any voltage, within their rating.

So a bank of super caps would be very helpful in the range of 13 - 14.4V to help stabilize your voltage.

Agree on the super caps comment, but running a bank of just super caps is a huge waste of money compared to building a bank of super caps that is sized for your bank of batteries. Both have their advantages and disadvantages when compared against each other, but when paired together CORRECTLY you can get the best of both worlds.

[Nathan @ XSpower]

The amount and quality of lead in the battery determines the capacity of the battery. The grid pattern on the lead plates, intercell connectors, and internal design determines how quickly the battery can discharge that capacity.

For instance our 16V and 14V batteries. We have the light S version and the heavier D versions. They are the same physical size with the same internal design, but the S is lighter. Only weight to lighten the S version was to take lead out of the battery, which in return gives is less reserve capacity. You have a trade off with weight v/s capacity.

You can get more power per battery if you buss a bank of smaller batteries together, because bussing them together optimizes the internal pressure in the batteries. Now this means if you have 5 small batteries and buss them together each of those 5 batteries will individually produce more power than they each would standing by themselves. This however does not increase each individual batteries capacity.

Would LOVE, LOVE to learn more about this. Can you elaborate. More power...... as in voltage, discharge rate? Very curious.

Instantaneous discharge capability. The will deliver more power individually when bussed together. Money wise it doesn't work out, but I would take a bank of 5 or 6 D680 over a single D3100 for a burp.

[rockFord_Expedition]

I see. You compare 2 different battery setups with equal capacity, the bank with the greater number of smaller batteries will react quicker to dynamic loads. Makes sense.

[Wicks]

Mmmmmmmmmmm, me likey this thread

Keep in mind, as Nathan mentioned, batteries don't charge up to 14.4V.

They have an internal resistance to overcome which is why you need to charge at 14.4V in order to get a resting voltage of ~13V. That 1 volt or so is lost in the charging process.

Also as mentioned, caps (super) don't have this limitation and will hold power at any voltage, within their rating.

So a bank of super caps would be very helpful in the range of 13 - 14.4V to help stabilize your voltage.

Agree on the super caps comment, but running a bank of just super caps is a huge waste of money compared to building a bank of super caps that is sized for your bank of batteries. Both have their advantages and disadvantages when compared against each other, but when paired together CORRECTLY you can get the best of both worlds.

Good point! Any tips on how to properly match supercaps to a battery bank?

The amount and quality of lead in the battery determines the capacity of the battery. The grid pattern on the lead plates, intercell connectors, and internal design determines how quickly the battery can discharge that capacity.

For instance our 16V and 14V batteries. We have the light S version and the heavier D versions. They are the same physical size with the same internal design, but the S is lighter. Only weight to lighten the S version was to take lead out of the battery, which in return gives is less reserve capacity. You have a trade off with weight v/s capacity.

You can get more power per battery if you buss a bank of smaller batteries together, because bussing them together optimizes the internal pressure in the batteries. Now this means if you have 5 small batteries and buss them together each of those 5 batteries will individually produce more power than they each would standing by themselves. This however does not increase each individual batteries capacity.

Would LOVE, LOVE to learn more about this. Can you elaborate. More power...... as in voltage, discharge rate? Very curious.

Instantaneous discharge capability. The will deliver more power individually when bussed together. Money wise it doesn't work out, but I would take a bank of 5 or 6 D680 over a single D3100 for a burp.

Another very good point!

Would I assume correctly that, similar to electrolytic capacitors, a bank of small caps will have a much lower ESR each then one larger cap.

Therefore the group of smaller caps can release energy faster then the single larger cap.

So the same could apply to a battery bank?