arcwcb Posted March 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 LOL this has turned into a big3 tutorial Im missing how ground the alt will eliminate his whine noise? My question to OP is how cheap are your rcas? KnuKonceptz Klarity RCA's 2006 Mustang GT Audio:2x RF R1200-1D, 2x RF R400-4, 2x RF P1S48, 2x RF T1682c, 2x DC 12" Lvl 3 D2, 1x RF T1652-s, XS Power Batts, Toolmaker blocks, Knu wiring, Knu RCA's, custom enclosure with amp rack Performance Mods:Too many to list... 2008 Toyota Tundra CrewMax 5.7L Audio:1x RF R1200-1D, 1x RF R250x4, 2x Sundown 10" SD2, 2x RF P1652, 1x RF P1652-s, Q-logic kickpanels, Knu wiring, Knu RCA's, custom enclosure with amp rack Performance Mods: Coming Soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcwcb Posted March 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 The negative post on the battery is not ground. I personally do both. If the negative post is not considered ground, then what is on a vehicle? All paths need to lead back to that point. 2006 Mustang GT Audio:2x RF R1200-1D, 2x RF R400-4, 2x RF P1S48, 2x RF T1682c, 2x DC 12" Lvl 3 D2, 1x RF T1652-s, XS Power Batts, Toolmaker blocks, Knu wiring, Knu RCA's, custom enclosure with amp rack Performance Mods:Too many to list... 2008 Toyota Tundra CrewMax 5.7L Audio:1x RF R1200-1D, 1x RF R250x4, 2x Sundown 10" SD2, 2x RF P1652, 1x RF P1652-s, Q-logic kickpanels, Knu wiring, Knu RCA's, custom enclosure with amp rack Performance Mods: Coming Soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broke_Audio_Addict Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 LOL this has turned into a big3 tutorial Im missing how ground the alt will eliminate his whine noise? My question to OP is how cheap are your rcas? You're not a newb so you have no real reason why you can't comprehend why a bad ground can cause at whine. That being said a lot of people's definition of "music" is a clipped 30 hz sine wave with some 80 IQ knuckle head grunting about committing crimes and his genitals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcwcb Posted March 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 Did you try ground your rca's together befor getting the loop isolator? If this was the cause it would do it all the time not just with the engine running. Why he is playing with the engine off is another issue altogether. Why is it an issue to play with the engine off? I'm not running 10kw on one battery, it's a relatively low powered system. I demo my Mustang all the time without the engine running because I have the batteries to support the power. Because 12V systems are meant to operate at 14 ish volts and if you are getting on it then the demand will make your voltage drop to unsafe levels. And how many batteries do you have and where are they located? Did you do the big 3? Specifically, did you ground the alt case to the chassis on the same side as the battery ground? I did the battery to chassis, I haven't done the alt power or the engine to chasis. I'm assuming the alt doesn't have a dedicated case ground and just shares a common ground with the motor I haven't looked though... Do some homework on why we do the big 3. The goal is to make the most efficient return path to the alternator. Trust me, I promise you this is good advice, give your alt a dedicated ground run to the frame. Don't just ground the engine and call it good because there is conductivity between the engine and the alt case. Up front you should have a common place on the frame to ground your alt and battery to. In the rear, ground your amps and batteries to a solid location on the frame on the SAME side that you grounded the stuff up front i.e. passengers or drivers side. I have done my homework on why the big 3 works, it's an extremely simple principal that doesn't require much more than common sense, and I plan on doing it. And I'm not running a second battery or anything crazy. I'm running one sub amp and one small 4channel, common ground, and it's grounded back to the battery (all 1/0) not to the chassis. To me, this is the cause of where the noise comes from, the extra resistance from the engine/alt ground to battery, going through the chassis. And there is no place on a stock alt to run a dedicated ground, and I'm not going to drill and tap in to the case. It's bolted to the engine, no plastic brackets, so sharing a common ground with the engine is not a big issue with this small amount of power. I'm thinking maybe a bonding wire between these two points, just to eliminate the difference in potential. Thoughts? Ring terminals on both ends of some 1/0 OFC one end attached to mounting bolt of alternator other end attached to chassis. it's an extremely simple principal Do I understand correctly that instead of grounding the amp in the back you ran cable all the way up front to the battery? Wait, you have only 1 battery and you think you have the reserve to demo a system with the engine off safely? Ok, I am learning alot here as I try to help you. You are receiving good solid advice but you think you know too much to accept it. The fact that you have a system installed and no big 3 done tells me right away that you either don't know or don't care enough about how this stuff works just yet. If you don't know, that is fine, we all start somewhere but for the love of all things holy take the good advice you are seeking. Ok back on task, do you really think that a single run of 1/0 from the rear to the front has less resistance than the frame of a vehicle? Ground your amp to the frame in the rear on one side and do the same to your alt. If it is truly alt whine this should help you out a ton, it will go away or be greatly reduced. I said I demo my Mustang all the time, I have an XS power up front and two XP3000's in the trunk. It has the reserve to be demo'd. This issue is in my Tundra, it's less than 1.5kw and I put a big AGM up front. I wasn't demo'ing it, just playing it at low volume to try to narrow down the source of the noise. How does a steel frame have less resistance than a run of OFC 1/0? I'm just asking, I'm not new to this, but I've never had such a persistant alt whine, so I'm trying to learn. 2006 Mustang GT Audio:2x RF R1200-1D, 2x RF R400-4, 2x RF P1S48, 2x RF T1682c, 2x DC 12" Lvl 3 D2, 1x RF T1652-s, XS Power Batts, Toolmaker blocks, Knu wiring, Knu RCA's, custom enclosure with amp rack Performance Mods:Too many to list... 2008 Toyota Tundra CrewMax 5.7L Audio:1x RF R1200-1D, 1x RF R250x4, 2x Sundown 10" SD2, 2x RF P1652, 1x RF P1652-s, Q-logic kickpanels, Knu wiring, Knu RCA's, custom enclosure with amp rack Performance Mods: Coming Soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 I am very noob.... but he has not upgraded his factory alt ground in a way to introduce the noise, it is still factory. and the whine occurs when he starts the car, not when he stresses the alternator. some wires somewhere are touching that shouldnt be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandpride684 Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 http://www.termpro.com/asp/pubs.asp?ID=121 What head unit do you have? Pioneers are notorious for noise issues because of the pico fuse, grounding the rcas would fix it, but not the right way....measure resistance on all your grounds http://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=49445 Build Log http://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/186921-blk9te-07-yukon-slo-mo-build/page-3?hl=%2Bblk9te#entry2881410 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broke_Audio_Addict Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 If it was the Pico fuse it would happen with the vehicle off too. Alt whine is almost always a grounding issue. That being said a lot of people's definition of "music" is a clipped 30 hz sine wave with some 80 IQ knuckle head grunting about committing crimes and his genitals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broke_Audio_Addict Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 I am very noob.... but he has not upgraded his factory alt ground in a way to introduce the noise, it is still factory. and the whine occurs when he starts the car, not when he stresses the alternator. some wires somewhere are touching that shouldnt be It's not about stressing the alternative and he has added onto the stock electrical without upgrading the stock grounds which were meant solely for the factory equipment. That being said a lot of people's definition of "music" is a clipped 30 hz sine wave with some 80 IQ knuckle head grunting about committing crimes and his genitals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcwcb Posted March 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 If it was the Pico fuse it would happen with the vehicle off too. Alt whine is almost always a grounding issue. I agree, it's obviously a grounding issue. However, wouldn't the need, on a system this small, to add a dedicated alt ground just to reduce noise and not just as providing more efficient charging be a symptom a failing alternator? Or am I looking too far in to it? 2006 Mustang GT Audio:2x RF R1200-1D, 2x RF R400-4, 2x RF P1S48, 2x RF T1682c, 2x DC 12" Lvl 3 D2, 1x RF T1652-s, XS Power Batts, Toolmaker blocks, Knu wiring, Knu RCA's, custom enclosure with amp rack Performance Mods:Too many to list... 2008 Toyota Tundra CrewMax 5.7L Audio:1x RF R1200-1D, 1x RF R250x4, 2x Sundown 10" SD2, 2x RF P1652, 1x RF P1652-s, Q-logic kickpanels, Knu wiring, Knu RCA's, custom enclosure with amp rack Performance Mods: Coming Soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockFord_Expedition Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 I have done my homework on why the big 3 works, it's an extremely simple principal that doesn't require much more than common sense, and I plan on doing it. And I'm not running a second battery or anything crazy. I'm running one sub amp and one small 4channel, common ground, and it's grounded back to the battery (all 1/0) not to the chassis. To me, this is the cause of where the noise comes from, the extra resistance from the engine/alt ground to battery, going through the chassis. And there is no place on a stock alt to run a dedicated ground, and I'm not going to drill and tap in to the case. It's bolted to the engine, no plastic brackets, so sharing a common ground with the engine is not a big issue with this small amount of power. I said I demo my Mustang all the time, I have an XS power up front and two XP3000's in the trunk. It has the reserve to be demo'd. This issue is in my Tundra, it's less than 1.5kw and I put a big AGM up front. I wasn't demo'ing it, just playing it at low volume to try to narrow down the source of the noise As long as I get the vibe your intentions are to learn I will to continue to try to help, but you are just flat out telling 2 different stories. Old School/New School RF Build March 2015 SOTM Winner How to crimp large wire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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