Lithium- Why isnt everyone convinced

[hdorre]

Because people only look at the prices of JY, XS, and sometimes Juicebox... and solely use that to come to the conclusion that the price of lithium cells that are overly-expensive.

[ChevyBoy95]

Because people only look at the prices of JY, XS, and sometimes Juicebox... and solely use that to come to the conclusion that the price of lithium cells that are overly-expensive.

Kind of a double edged sword in a sense... On one hand, you can get a warranty, good customer service, and known longevity/performance from those companies or you can go the cheaper route of buying cells online without really knowing what they are capable of real world (longevity, mainly) and you only have a spec sheet to go by. And most customers wont dive into the unknown without someone doing it first and being thorough about how they did it.

[ShadeTreeMechanic]

Maybe you could get some and let us know how it turns out?

[islandpride684]

Because people only look at the prices of JY, XS, and sometimes Juicebox... and solely use that to come to the conclusion that the price of lithium cells that are overly-expensive.

Same concept applies to amps, brand A is widely known and brand B is unknown, which one do you think consumers would be attracted to based on those?

[Skullz]

I'm convinced i can't afford them. lol

We will all go eventually when the costs come down to levels where people can afford them, but it takes time for manufacturing to invent new processes that costs less to produce.

[ChevyBoy95]

Most already own AGM battery banks for one (which is a reason I think many havent switched) and Ill use my system as an example.

I have 6 agm group 31's in my rear bank which I bought new for probably 1600ish. The resale on them is probably 900-1000 bucks. To get enough lithium to match or benefit, I would need 2 40ah units (each one assuming it replaces/keeps up with 3-4 group 31's). That from XS, Juicebox, etc. would run me about 3000 bucks, or 2000 out of pocket.

If I didnt have a bank in the first place, I would think of saving up and going lithium, but since I already invested in AGM and have a stable electrical system (12.8+ full tilt for full songs), where is the draw to sell of 6 batteries, spend 1500-2000 more for a proven brand (not buying single cells from whoever) just to keep the same electrical performance or a bit better when weight/ for factor is not an issue?

[hdorre]

Because people only look at the prices of JY, XS, and sometimes Juicebox... and solely use that to come to the conclusion that the price of lithium cells that are overly-expensive.

Kind of a double edged sword in a sense... On one hand, you can get a warranty, good customer service, and known longevity/performance from those companies or you can go the cheaper route of buying cells online without really knowing what they are capable of real world (longevity, mainly) and you only have a spec sheet to go by. And most customers wont dive into the unknown without someone doing it first and being thorough about how they did it.

I completely agree with everything you said. Was just trying to hit a nerve

Maybe you could get some and let us know how it turns out?

A team mate did, and is very happy. Holds 13.4 on 2 4500s wired to .5 per. Not bad for a bank with a $560 value.

Because people only look at the prices of JY, XS, and sometimes Juicebox... and solely use that to come to the conclusion that the price of lithium cells that are overly-expensive.

Same concept applies to amps, brand A is widely known and brand B is unknown, which one do you think consumers would be attracted to based on those?

Welp, for amps you need to order a metric fuck ton, pay the expensive import costs, and then wait.. and wait.

Try again.

[WalledSonic]

After contacting several alternator re-winders, it seems the most amperage I can expect from my car (Chevy Sonic Sedan) is around 200A. I plan on trying to design a secondary alternator bracket, but thats beside the point.

With only 200A at 1800rpm, and 130A at idle, a massive battery bank is my only way to go for my build. I already have (3) D3100's in the trunk, but adding 240lbs over the back axle has definitely sagged her ass a lil bit. I contacted Chris at XS asking about mixing lithium with AGM since I may need to add more battery if I go over 4k and i've already invested a lot of money in AGM. Although the two styles can be mixed, they must be intellicharged separately (if someone desires to trickle charge) since Lithium doesnt need the float charge. I personally dont plan to trickle, so at this point the question is bang for the buck.

So we need an apples to apples comparison; lets use the Group 31 size for the maths and lets assume 12V. In terms of steady output capacity:

D3100 capacity: 110Ah. 12V x 110Ah = 1320Wh

XS30K capacity: 675Wh

Here the data tells us the AGM has about twice the capacity of an equivalently sized lithium.

Although, XS claims the max wattage (instantaneous output capacity) for AGM is 4000-5000W and for the lithium 30,000W.

Here the data tells us the AGM has about ~15% the max output as lithium.

One thing to note is that lithium normally has a lower ESR than AGM, so it charges faster than AGM.

All of this lends to the notion that lithium would be best suited for burp SPL and AGM best suited for playing for long periods with the engine turned off. Since there isnt a crystal clear distinction between the two, and because one costs ~5X more than the other, its going to take some real world documented testing to convince the masses to 'switch'... Especially since lead-acid has a 140 year history of solid performance (at the sacrifice of weight).

If I get the dollars together for lithium, I will certainly test and post results. If someone has more information, please share!

[ShadeTreeMechanic]

How do lithium compare to super caps? I know they are two different animals, but as far as instantaneous current goes the lithium has to be right up there with super caps. I have seen systems with no batteries and only super caps. Anyone know how caps and lithium compare in power per dollar?

[Raptorman]

I've been summoned.

12.3 volts @ idle on left
10.3 volts @ idle on right

25 lbs on left ~280 lbs on right

~$560 left
~$1.3k on right (assuming 3 standard XS G31's and 1 XS G34. Yes, I realize those are not my batteries and that my voltage would likely be a bit higher with better quality batteries)