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What is gain overlap?


06RTCharger

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What is the point of overlaping your gain? Everything ive read and seen is basically just saying what to set it at, not really what it is for. Im confused because it seems to me, that if ur setting a "+db" gain overlap, then that means u are purposely setting ur gain to clip? And -db means ur purposely not setting to full potential? 

If ur using a DD1+ and set the gain perfectly right before distortion.........why would u then go and turn it up past that point, or below that point, on purpose? Just another car audio topic im trying to learn a lil bit about. Thanks for the insight guys, i know ill be learning the reasons soon lol. 

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The overlap on the dd-1+ is done differently than the DD-1.

With the DD-1 you are limited to the few tracks for each 40hz and 1khz on the disc that was -5, -10, and -15db (iirc).

The DD-1+ there is just 1 tone for 40hz and 1khz.

With the overlap you turn the knob to the desired overlap. So if you wanted -5db like how you set with a dd-1 you would turn the dial until you see +5db, then your gain is set with an equivalent to the -5db track from the dd-1.

However with the dd-1+ you are not limited to those 3 tracks and can set it to anywhere in between which you cant do with the dd-1 unless you make your own tracks.

Plus with the dd-1+ you can tune a customers amp and right it down the overlap and voltage on your copy of the receipt. Then if they ever come in with any blown woofers you can verify with your dd-1+ if they messed with the amp settings at all and jacked the gain up, blew the woofer than they lowered it back down to claim they didnt touch anything. Kind of nice, but not something beneficial to everyone.

 

 

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1 hour ago, audiofanaticz said:

The overlap on the dd-1+ is done differently than the DD-1.

With the DD-1 you are limited to the few tracks for each 40hz and 1khz on the disc that was -5, -10, and -15db (iirc).

The DD-1+ there is just 1 tone for 40hz and 1khz.

With the overlap you turn the knob to the desired overlap. So if you wanted -5db like how you set with a dd-1 you would turn the dial until you see +5db, then your gain is set with an equivalent to the -5db track from the dd-1.

However with the dd-1+ you are not limited to those 3 tracks and can set it to anywhere in between which you cant do with the dd-1 unless you make your own tracks.

Plus with the dd-1+ you can tune a customers amp and right it down the overlap and voltage on your copy of the receipt. Then if they ever come in with any blown woofers you can verify with your dd-1+ if they messed with the amp settings at all and jacked the gain up, blew the woofer than they lowered it back down to claim they didnt touch anything. Kind of nice, but not something beneficial to everyone.

I know the DD-1+ is able to do a better fine tuning and stuff, i have one but havent got to use it yet. But my question is "what is" gain over lap and "why" would someone want it? My guess is that a +10 db overlap means ur gain knob on the amp is turned PAST the distortion point till it reaches +10db, meaning u could potentially damage ur speakers, is that right? Becuase when u set a gain overlap u are turning the "gain" knob on the amp right? 

Sorry lol u gotta start with the basics with me, the only part that i know is "gain". Gain is used to match ur amps input voltage from its source, to acquire maximum SAFE output from the amp, right? But now when u start talking about overlaping gain, im like "HUH....? Why??" Lol

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Here we go again..................................

I said EXACTLY what the gain overlap is.

I also said you are not adding +db to it, it is actually -, but when you turn the knob to add overlap you are being showed what you are adding as +, but it is actually -.
The + simply implies that you are adding overlap to your setting.

So if you set your amp for +10 db of overlap, it would be the same as using the -10db track on the dd-1. I just said this...

You use overlap because music is often not recorded at 0db (unless your playing test tones). A lot of the edited music bassheads listen to is -5db, so you would use the -5db track on a dd-1 OR add +5db of overlap on the dd-1+ (they are the same setting. So you are matching your overlap to the music, otherwise if you play it at 0db it is quieter than intended.

 

 

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3 hours ago, audiofanaticz said:

So if you wanted -5db like how you set with a dd-1 you would turn the dial until you see +5db, then your gain is set with an equivalent to the -5db track from the dd-1.

This sentence lost me, i couldnt make any sense of it. But now after ur second response, that sentence makes alot more sense to me. Im a noob man, lol sorry. 

 

20 minutes ago, audiofanaticz said:

You use overlap because music is often not recorded at 0db (unless your playing test tones). A lot of the edited music bassheads listen to is -5db, so you would use the -5db track on a dd-1 OR add +5db of overlap on the dd-1+ (they are the same setting. So you are matching your overlap to the music, otherwise if you play it at 0db it is quieter than intended.

Then this part was the answer i was trying to find! Thanks alot man, i appreciate the patients. I now know what gain over lap is used for and why people would want to incorporate it into their setup. 

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Read every post, I understand what overlap is but i will simplify a little.  

Since you have the DD-1+ I will say it like this, pretend your gain on your amplifier actually had marks for EVERY setting...pretending you already set it with DD1 using a 0 db track then it would then go/say 0.1 then 0.2 then 0.3 etc. when turning the gain up

5 being 5.0 obviously so meaning 50x that of 0.1

10 being 10.0 obviously so meaning 100x that of 0.1 and so on to the -15 track being 15.0 being 150x that of 0.1  (using DD1, NOT DD-1+)

 

Disclaimer: DD-1+ shows overlap with a positive (+) symbol not to be confused with -5, like AudioFanaticz explained, you are adding overlap, blah blah, what *IS* -5 or -10 overlap will show on DD-1+ as +5 and +10 respectively.

 

Because I said you already set the gain using 0 DB track on DD1 you could/would then turn gain lower and assume there were marks on amplifier showing -0.1 then -0.2 then -0.3  assuming that you set gain using 0 db track with DD1 (not DD-1+)  so gain is pretend 1/3 of the way up, thus anything ABOVE 1/3 starts at 0.1 and goes up and anything below 1/3 gain would be -0.1 and continue to go lower.  (NOT on DD-1+ but we're pretending there are marks on side of amplifier)

 

When people talk headroom, they have a more powerful amp then need be and set gain at 1/5 gain on my scale above thus much lower then 0 db track (assuming 1/3 is 0) on DD1 (respectively much lower than 0 DB overlap on DD-1+)  the DD-1+ just says "No Overlap" when you go lower then the matching to your HU voltage output, so 1/3 or lower using my scenario will show "No Overlap" on DD-1+

 

Disclaimer: me saying gain is 1/3 or 1/5 is purely fictional for explanation purposes don't think you can set any amplifier at 1/3 or 1/5 and be safe.

 

DD-1 gives you tracks of 0, -5, -10, -15.  People can make their own tracks, such as Snowdrifter on this site made tracks of -2.5 and -7.5 before the DD-1+ was released.  

 

DD-1+ allows you to adjust at ANY inbetween setting going to the nearest tenth ( 10.1, 10.2, 10.3 etc.)

 

Overlap by a simple definition is the range at which you can set your gain on your amplifier.  Your amplifier prolly says something like 0.2v on the low side and 6.0v on the high side.  Your HU sends out a 4.0v signal (4 volts) so you want that to match your amplifier gain, the DD-1 and DD-1+ allow you to do that precisely, it's just that the DD-1+ allows you to set it anywhere you want (all inbetween voltages rounded to the nearest tenth).  Having your gain on amplifier much higher than it should be has the potential to introduce distortion and clipping.  All clipping is distortion, but not all distortion is clipping.  keep in mind that where your gain is set at is irrelevant compared to anyone else because it's HU reliant, maybe your HU puts out 2v preout, maybe 5v preout, this determines how high your gain will appear on your amplifier if set correctly.  When people say gain is 1/3 or 3/4 or whatever they may or may not have set it correctly but since it's HU based either one COULD be right but no one will know till hooked up to a DD-1, DD-1+, or O-scope.

 

The hard part:  music today is recorded differently, so a 5.5 overlap may work for one song but may distort another, or be really quiet for another, that's the struggle that we all face, especially with so many more devices being able to play music through you car today, all depends how it was recorded from the beginning (the song).  You will see on here people talk about really knowing their system, it's because they stick tons of time into listening and setting and they know what they can and can't play and they know when they are and aren't clipping.  There is no real set it and forget it although some set it a little conservative if they always listen to music from the same source and can in most instances be safe.  Some songs you may not be playing your system to it's full potential (inefficient) but others you may be causing harm to your gear (clipping/distortion).

2007 Chevy Tahoe (SOLD)

12 ~ FI Audio X series 10" w/BP option

2 ~ DC Audio 5.0K @0.67

3 ~ DC Audio 5.0K @1.0 

2 ~ PPI 3 way sets (not installed yet)

1 ~ RF T400-4, 1 ~ RF T600-2, 1 ~ RF T600-4

4 ~ CT Sounds 5.25" Strato comps  (rear fill only)

1 ~ XS Power D4800

1 ~ XS Power D3400

8 ~ XS Power XP3000

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If I am in any way wrong, someone please correct me so I am not sending false information.  

2007 Chevy Tahoe (SOLD)

12 ~ FI Audio X series 10" w/BP option

2 ~ DC Audio 5.0K @0.67

3 ~ DC Audio 5.0K @1.0 

2 ~ PPI 3 way sets (not installed yet)

1 ~ RF T400-4, 1 ~ RF T600-2, 1 ~ RF T600-4

4 ~ CT Sounds 5.25" Strato comps  (rear fill only)

1 ~ XS Power D4800

1 ~ XS Power D3400

8 ~ XS Power XP3000

160 stock alt, Mechman 370 Elite, 185 DC Power

320+ Sq. Ft. Sound Deadener

Pioneer AVH-X5500BHS

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/knfjdkghjudfhsgkjdhf/videos?sort=dd&view=0&shelf_id=0

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Music is dynamic. Changes. So, the overlap is set to compensate for those changes in peaks/valleys. For a never changing signal, there is only (as Brian mentioned) a tone. I dont know about you, but i dont like driving around listening to tones, i prefer music. 

So, to open the "area"  or "window" of play, you use a over lap. I knew where the music i played was recorded at, (decaf, got160's, bigpimin and the like) and, i like a lil give also, so i used a custom -7.5 track that Chris (snowdrifter) made. I wanted a tick more than -5 gave, but no way the -10.

When we got talking, few of us felt this way, so, we did our own thing, and came up with middle of the road tracks. (this was before the PLUS was developed)

Make any sense?

 

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