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Subs with no mechanical bottom...


RooTxBeeR

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I have been thinking a lot about the subs I am going to be running. A pair of X18's, and they have no mechanical bottom. I know the rule is to not play below tuning, blah blah. Because of this no limit, I want to take advantage of it. Want to have to largest bandwidth possible. What is everyone experience with woofers that have the same similar respect, what is their experience with tuning higher than usual, while still having a nice low end. I am not expecting to slam into the teens, but I do want to be able to play with authority into the mid 20's. As well still have a nice high end when playing rock and certain genres of techno music. Would this be a hard thing to achieve? How can the no mechanical limit help me achieve this?

On 11/20/2012 at 8:54 PM, AMI CUSTOMS said:

Turned mine up today at a light, guy next to me his steering wheel started moving and he looked over at me like I was a magician lol.

On 5/9/2012 at 8:45 PM, skittlesRgood said:

fuck the plating. look at what the main metal used is. you could buy unicorn blood plated terminals but if its just covering up dog shit, whats the point

On 4/10/2013 at 12:26 PM, mrd6 said:

I'll admit, half way through sanding that fiberglass in the rain and cold while I was all itchy I was definitely starting to question why i was doing this haha

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I am looking for anyone experience in the matter though, when did they start seeing issues, how far below tuning. I want to maximize it.

On 11/20/2012 at 8:54 PM, AMI CUSTOMS said:

Turned mine up today at a light, guy next to me his steering wheel started moving and he looked over at me like I was a magician lol.

On 5/9/2012 at 8:45 PM, skittlesRgood said:

fuck the plating. look at what the main metal used is. you could buy unicorn blood plated terminals but if its just covering up dog shit, whats the point

On 4/10/2013 at 12:26 PM, mrd6 said:

I'll admit, half way through sanding that fiberglass in the rain and cold while I was all itchy I was definitely starting to question why i was doing this haha

  • Soon To Be
  • '04 Ford Escape
  • US Alternator 280A Hairpin
  • D4800 Under the Hood
  • (6) XP3000's in Rear
  • 1/0 SHCA & XS Power 4 runs to back
  • TORK2 kit from Tony @ CE Auto Supply
  • Pioneer DEH-80PRS
  • DD AW6.5 (2) per door
  • *Tweeter Unkown*
  • DD SS4a & C3d
  • (2) SCV4000 @ .5Ohm
  • (2) 15" Sundown Zv5
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5 minutes ago, MrSkippyJ said:

Yup, my bad! I don't have that experience so I will sit back and learn.

1f37a.png

I am well aware that the suspension does have it's own limits, I just know the X's are nuts when it comes to low end. Curious how low people could get them to go with different tunings. Just trying to get the largest bandwidth I possibly can.

On 11/20/2012 at 8:54 PM, AMI CUSTOMS said:

Turned mine up today at a light, guy next to me his steering wheel started moving and he looked over at me like I was a magician lol.

On 5/9/2012 at 8:45 PM, skittlesRgood said:

fuck the plating. look at what the main metal used is. you could buy unicorn blood plated terminals but if its just covering up dog shit, whats the point

On 4/10/2013 at 12:26 PM, mrd6 said:

I'll admit, half way through sanding that fiberglass in the rain and cold while I was all itchy I was definitely starting to question why i was doing this haha

  • Soon To Be
  • '04 Ford Escape
  • US Alternator 280A Hairpin
  • D4800 Under the Hood
  • (6) XP3000's in Rear
  • 1/0 SHCA & XS Power 4 runs to back
  • TORK2 kit from Tony @ CE Auto Supply
  • Pioneer DEH-80PRS
  • DD AW6.5 (2) per door
  • *Tweeter Unkown*
  • DD SS4a & C3d
  • (2) SCV4000 @ .5Ohm
  • (2) 15" Sundown Zv5
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The issue with playing below tuning isn't just that excursion increases dramatically, the output from the port and the cone begin to cancel each other out.  Even if you had a sub with literally unlimited excursion potential you won't be able to get much output far below tuning.  Its just like playing a sub in free air, the wave coming off the back of the cone cancels out whats coming off the front.  

 

If as wide as possible bandwidth is what you want, I'd suggest tuning lower, not higher.  

"Nothing prevents people from knowing the truth more than the belief they already know it."
"Making bass is easy, making music is the hard part."

Builds:

U7qkMTL.jpg  LgPgE9w.jpg  Od2G3u1.jpg  xMyLoO1.jpg  9pAlXUK.jpg

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46 minutes ago, Triticum Agricolam said:

The issue with playing below tuning isn't just that excursion increases dramatically, the output from the port and the cone begin to cancel each other out.  Even if you had a sub with literally unlimited excursion potential you won't be able to get much output far below tuning.  Its just like playing a sub in free air, the wave coming off the back of the cone cancels out whats coming off the front.  

 

If as wide as possible bandwidth is what you want, I'd suggest tuning lower, not higher.  

Really? What makes you say that? I am going to build a box tuned to 32hz first, then depending on how I feel it sounds make adjustments from there. Was expecting I would raise the tuning, not lower it.

On 11/20/2012 at 8:54 PM, AMI CUSTOMS said:

Turned mine up today at a light, guy next to me his steering wheel started moving and he looked over at me like I was a magician lol.

On 5/9/2012 at 8:45 PM, skittlesRgood said:

fuck the plating. look at what the main metal used is. you could buy unicorn blood plated terminals but if its just covering up dog shit, whats the point

On 4/10/2013 at 12:26 PM, mrd6 said:

I'll admit, half way through sanding that fiberglass in the rain and cold while I was all itchy I was definitely starting to question why i was doing this haha

  • Soon To Be
  • '04 Ford Escape
  • US Alternator 280A Hairpin
  • D4800 Under the Hood
  • (6) XP3000's in Rear
  • 1/0 SHCA & XS Power 4 runs to back
  • TORK2 kit from Tony @ CE Auto Supply
  • Pioneer DEH-80PRS
  • DD AW6.5 (2) per door
  • *Tweeter Unkown*
  • DD SS4a & C3d
  • (2) SCV4000 @ .5Ohm
  • (2) 15" Sundown Zv5
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I was thinking the same thing as Triticum. Take home theater subs for example, they are designed to play a much wider bandwidth than most car audio builds. If you look at the tuning of most custom home enclosures you will find a lot of times they are tuned to between 17 to 25hz. This allows them to recreate deep tones such as earthquakes and explosions in movies much better while still allowing them to hit higher 50 - 60hz tones and still be within their tuning parameters. However, tuning for a wide bandwidth in a vehicle is much more difficult because, unlike home audio in large, open rooms, you have to account for cabin gain as well which can greatly reduce the top and bottom ends of your frequency range. I personally have some experience with this as my previous enclosure was tuned to 27hz with a pair of DC Level 6 18s. I feel that this was a perfect tuning for what you are trying to achieve, you just have to make absolutely sure you know what you are doing when it comes to setting your crossovers, gains, etc. I learned this the hard way after burning the leads off my spider due to over excursion and improper gain settings, but after setting everything properly it was still painfully loud at around 25hz and still very well balanced when playing metal, dubstep, and so on. So hopefully this gives you a little more insight on achieving your tuning goals.

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3 hours ago, RooTxBeeR said:

Really? What makes you say that? I am going to build a box tuned to 32hz first, then depending on how I feel it sounds make adjustments from there. Was expecting I would raise the tuning, not lower it.

With a ported box, how low you can play is going to be heavily influenced by the tuning frequency of the box, regardless of what subs are being used.  Cabin gain will boost the low end, and you can get way with playing a bit below tuning, but if you want to be able to play really low, tune low.  

The bandwidth of a sub really is just how loud it is a some frequencies vs others, its all relative.  Lower tuned boxes are going to have a smoother frequency response with a less pronounced peak in output, and thus larger bandwidth compared to a higher tuned box.  This is one of the big reasons I prefer lower tuned boxes for my own listening, I like the smoother frequency response and the wider bandwidth that comes with it.  I like to crossover to my subs around 80 Hz if I can.  This smoother frequency response comes at the cost of slightly reduced peak output though, so it all depends on what's most important to you.  

"Nothing prevents people from knowing the truth more than the belief they already know it."
"Making bass is easy, making music is the hard part."

Builds:

U7qkMTL.jpg  LgPgE9w.jpg  Od2G3u1.jpg  xMyLoO1.jpg  9pAlXUK.jpg

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