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Lithium battery questions


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Thanks for yall input I'm in a battle between limitless and xs power..

4 Fi Q 12s In A Prius on 4 Crescendo BC2000D?! :WTFBubble: That's Absurd (!!!UNDER CONSTRUCTION!!!) go follow http://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/190658-the-first-prius-with-4-12s/

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18 hours ago, zoeboi954 said:

1st questions i plan on running 12k rms  and i noticed that the XS15k and XS30k are the max rating and the continuous are half the max. So does that mean i would have to get a XS30k for my 12k rms system or will the XS15K be good enough. And what the difference between the spl version and non spl 

2nd question I started to look at some post about them and I noticed someone said that they were informed by XS Power that the battery perform best at 11.8v. Is this true?  This information kinda threw me off because I don't like going below 12v. That makes wonder where the the 16v version perform best at. 

3rd questions how will they handle mixing with agm batteries? I currently have 2 xs power battery a D5100r and a D2400. And I also will be buying a charger. I was going to buy a XS Power PSC15 but I also noticed XS have lithium chargers. Can i charge them all together or separate or delete the agm batteries? Will it matter if I used the PSC15 for the lithium battery, or is it a must that i get a lithium charger?

4th question be honest with me, do you guys really think it's worth getting lithium battery. And do you think the other companies lithium battery like jy or limitless are good?

5th question is not a lithium question, just don't feel like making another post for this simple question. But my D2400 crack on the side and leaked from it. I removed it and put my voltmeter on it read 12.6v and it did well on a load test. So I just put glue on the crack and put back in the car. Should I be worried about it. I've had that battery since 2011

1. Depends on alternators, amplifiers and ohm load the amplifiers will be wired to.

2. Yes just like AGM they will increase in amperage output as voltage drops. But they start discharging from the ~14v range versus the mid 12 range like AGM, so they have the potential to hold high 12's/low 13's for a lot of people.

3. They will be fine to mix. The AGM's resting at a lower voltage will draw from the lithium, which is OK. Lithium prefers to be stored at lower SOC, contrary to AGM which basically higher = better. Any charger will suffice really.

4. Lithium is extremely worth it, and is actually the cheapest option (by a good margin) if you can afford the higher up-front cost. But with JY releasing their 8.55AH single module 12v cells in a few months at roughly $240 shipped each it will make it easier for people to break into the lithium market. People seem to be happy with JY and Limitless. Limitless does have some con's though. The non-modular design makes it impossible to switch to/from 12/16v without replacing the entire battery. The JY's you will only need to add/take away one cell. Limitless doesn't have passive cell balancing either. There is a .5A draw in each JY module that will bleed current until a certain voltage set-point. This indirectly balances all cells with each other without manually balancing them or using a BMS.


Also a sidenote, not a single cell has failed since JY's inception. Have heard of numerous cases with people having issues with their XS batteries or being very let down by the performance. Scottie seemed super interested in sending me a lithium to include in my testing until I posted the Winston Vs JY video.... Odd.

Edited by Raptorman
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1996 GMC Sonoma
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On 10/20/2013 at 0:37 AM, KillaCam said:

Fucking with a Prius driver is like making fun of a disabled kid. Pussies.

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18 hours ago, baron_of_bass said:

I'd suggest looking into a lifepo4. I just found a company this morning that has them priced way cheaper than expected. They did a head to head against my power and held up better than the my power.

Limitless. Saw that video. The lack of clamp numbers, and the different number of cables going to each battery completely discredited it to me.

1996 GMC Sonoma
Four Fi BTL Neo 18's In 2:1 6th Order Bandpass
2 Ampere 5k's @ .5

TEAM FI
TEAM #LITHIUMCANTDEMO

 

On 10/20/2013 at 0:37 AM, KillaCam said:

Fucking with a Prius driver is like making fun of a disabled kid. Pussies.

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I was gonna say if i (when i) do lith, it will be JY. Ive just read way to many very positive reviews from the product, to the people running the show (Trav and Yeuy). I also have heard some not so popular stuff regaurding the XS liths. And im a XS nut hugger. Through and through, but, ..... its just what ive seen and read, and talking to alt builders about lith, one was sorry to say, that the xs lith, wasnt up to par from what hes tried, and seen ran.

 

 Ive never ran any lith, so, this is all my opinion from talks, reading, and such. Just tossing it out there. 

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I'm assuming that you have the alt to back the lithium because from what I have heard and discussed with others, if you do not then your alt is going to have a bad day.

Also another point is that you will want a AGM in front of the lithium back due to the low resistance of the lithium and the high charge acceptance having the alt to see close to a dead short causing the alt to go ball out until the battery charges back up.

 

I hope some people who are only able to have a single alt in situations like mine, think about everything before they jump into the lithium boat.  Maybe @Raptorman could chime in on what I said to clarify if what I am saying is true or not as he seems to know quite a lot about the subject?

 

:ninja:

 

 

When your at the top everyone is coming for you, friends, family, haters and even those who don't know you.. my advice.. KILL EM ALL

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35 minutes ago, Ninja_v1.0 said:

I'm assuming that you have the alt to back the lithium because from what I have heard and discussed with others, if you do not then your alt is going to have a bad day.

Also another point is that you will want a AGM in front of the lithium back due to the low resistance of the lithium and the high charge acceptance having the alt to see close to a dead short causing the alt to go ball out until the battery charges back up.

 

I hope some people who are only able to have a single alt in situations like mine, think about everything before they jump into the lithium boat.  Maybe @Raptorman could chime in on what I said to clarify if what I am saying is true or not as he seems to know quite a lot about the subject?

 

:ninja:

 

 

I will be having 2 charging system soon. I have the universal mechman 320 single wire I'm in the works of talkin to someone to install it.  And a stock dc to dc charging system. 

4 Fi Q 12s In A Prius on 4 Crescendo BC2000D?! :WTFBubble: That's Absurd (!!!UNDER CONSTRUCTION!!!) go follow http://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/190658-the-first-prius-with-4-12s/

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1 hour ago, Kyblack76 said:

I was gonna say if i (when i) do lith, it will be JY. Ive just read way to many very positive reviews from the product, to the people running the show (Trav and Yeuy). I also have heard some not so popular stuff regaurding the XS liths. And im a XS nut hugger. Through and through, but, ..... its just what ive seen and read, and talking to alt builders about lith, one was sorry to say, that the xs lith, wasnt up to par from what hes tried, and seen ran.

 

 Ive never ran any lith, so, this is all my opinion from talks, reading, and such. Just tossing it out there. 

From the video I saw on YouTube jy wasn’t able to keep up with the limitless, but who knows how well those batteries were charged up prior to test.

4 Fi Q 12s In A Prius on 4 Crescendo BC2000D?! :WTFBubble: That's Absurd (!!!UNDER CONSTRUCTION!!!) go follow http://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/190658-the-first-prius-with-4-12s/

c42977d4-a28f-47b5-a02f-49dbb8697b2d_zps

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21 minutes ago, zoeboi954 said:

I will be having 2 charging system soon. I have the universal mechman 320 single wire I'm in the works of talkin to someone to install it.  And a stock dc to dc charging system. 

cool.. just wanting to make sure you have the changing behind the lithium...

 

:ninja:

 

 

When your at the top everyone is coming for you, friends, family, haters and even those who don't know you.. my advice.. KILL EM ALL

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13 minutes ago, zoeboi954 said:

From the video I saw on YouTube jy wasn’t able to keep up with the limitless, but who knows how well those batteries were charged up prior to test.

And that's another point. The JY's are shipped at 30% SOC. So they will take a while to charge up. No telling what SOC it was at before the test. I charged mine up on a charger before I even put it in my truck.

 

 

1 hour ago, Ninja_v1.0 said:

I'm assuming that you have the alt to back the lithium because from what I have heard and discussed with others, if you do not then your alt is going to have a bad day.

Also another point is that you will want a AGM in front of the lithium back due to the low resistance of the lithium and the high charge acceptance having the alt to see close to a dead short causing the alt to go ball out until the battery charges back up.

 

I hope some people who are only able to have a single alt in situations like mine, think about everything before they jump into the lithium boat.  Maybe @Raptorman could chime in on what I said to clarify if what I am saying is true or not as he seems to know quite a lot about the subject?

 

:ninja:

 

 

They really aren't any harder on an alt than an AGM is. If anything, AGM is harder on alternators than lithium, since AGM really starts to kick in around 11.8V-12.0V, and even more so around 11.0V. Lithium will start to kick in around high 12's/low 13's. The system draws from the alternator first. Battery carries the remaining weight. And while there is no draw they don't draw a whole lot. If you look at the recharge tests in my video you will see the current being put into each battery and it will taper off as IR/SOC increases.

Jump to 12:26 and watch current vs voltage.
 

 

1996 GMC Sonoma
Four Fi BTL Neo 18's In 2:1 6th Order Bandpass
2 Ampere 5k's @ .5

TEAM FI
TEAM #LITHIUMCANTDEMO

 

On 10/20/2013 at 0:37 AM, KillaCam said:

Fucking with a Prius driver is like making fun of a disabled kid. Pussies.

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1 minute ago, Raptorman said:

And that's another point. The JY's are shipped at 30% SOC. So they will take a while to charge up. No telling what SOC it was at before the test. I charged mine up on a charger before I even put it in my truck.

 

 

They really aren't any harder on an alt than an AGM is. If anything, AGM is harder on alternators than lithium, since AGM really starts to kick in around 11.8V-12.0V, and even more so around 11.0V. Lithium will start to kick in around high 12's/low 13's. The system draws from the alternator first. Battery carries the remaining weight. And while there is no draw they don't draw a whole lot. If you look at the recharge tests in my video you will see the current being put into each battery and it will taper off as IR/SOC increases.

Jump to 12:26 and watch current vs voltage.
 

 

Now this makes for an interesting debate.. In my situation i live on battery voltage meaning when i fill tilt i have 0 help from my alt.. with that being said i was told from multiple people that due to the resistance with the lithium that causes my alt to see a damn near dead sort and end up going ballz out trying to charge them up.

 

I have seen and heard stories of people burning up alts due to this.. and within those stories they all stated that their alt was working harder with the lithium than with the agm.. so many stories, so many different opinions.. i have no clue on anything about lithium so its still a learning game for me but i dont wanna be in a situation where im going to burn up the alt i have.

 

:ninja:

 

 

When your at the top everyone is coming for you, friends, family, haters and even those who don't know you.. my advice.. KILL EM ALL

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