My SQ project planning needs Jesus

[afro]

Hey guys n gals,

  Been a long time since I've been on here. But I'm hoping the expertise in this subforum can shed some light on where to go from here. I've effectively researched myself into some confusion on how to approach this project. If anyone is willing to help walk me through this write up, I'd be really grateful. So here it goes.

1st, the car and equipment

2015 Dodge Durango SXT Rallye, non-Beats audio (I'll grab the signal from behind the radio for the DSP)

No Rear Stage, all equipment is for sub or Front stage

Midbass mounted in door, factory location

Midrange and tweet mounted in 3D printed pods on the dash, on axis to the opposite headrest.

Equipment being "grandfathered" in to this project:

Addictive Audio 100.1D - ~ 1200Wrms at 1ohm

Addictive Audio 10.4AB - 115Wrms x 4 at 4ohm

Sundown SD2-10" D2 - I have a restricted mounting depth since the DSP, Sub, and Amps are all going under the subfloor in the hatch #STEALTHMODE

CT Sounds Meso 6.5" Components, will be ran active.

SHCA wiring, Stinger fuse blocks and power distro, etc.

Planning to obtain:

* Audison Bit Ten D, MiniDSP 6x8, JL Fix 86, or 3Sixty.3 - I'm most likely getting used equipment here. I'm not really able to spend a whole lot on this project. I have some flexibility built into it, but nothing that gets me a brand new unit.

3"-4" midrange - So far, I've found the Powerbass 2XL-3M Soft dome mid - Yes I want the 4" Kappas, JLs, Morels, or Focals, but they are out of the price range. Tons of people are recommending the Daytons in forums and as far as I can tell they're really low power, and high sensitivity, so efficient, yes. But my 4ch will likely destroy them (assuming the signal is clear and no clipping)

Super tweet? - Or another Tweet and split the treble frequencies between the two? overkill?

My questions:

1) Do I have too much amp and not enough Channels? It seems to me the more I read on low-mid budget SQ builds that folks are running Dayton Audio for midranges, and they're only like 30Wrms, so 115 would definitely be too much. So do I try to sell/ trade off my addictive amps and get 2x4ch @ 50-65wrms Zapcos, Skar, CT, or Massive, then match to a 500wrms @ 1ohm mono equivalent in that brand? I would like to keep the matching as the amp rack is going to be exposed and I plan to make it look awesome. 

2) I've read a ton on the pro audio vs components, it seems that since I'm not going for loudness, and I don't have 155db of subs, that the warmth of Component speakers ran active is the way to go. Is this really the case? and can I get away with it on the CT woofer (very stiff cone, seems like it will be nice and punchy), CT tweet, and Powerbass (Or Dayton, or ?????) Mid?

3) Cadence has a DSP for around 2 hundo brand new. And before anyone else says it, I do know that they sold out years ago. My very first sub was the original Beast in single 2ohm. But the reviews I've seen on it favor it. Not a whole lot of harsh things said about it. I know the user interface is clunky, but I'm not overly concerned about it.

4) My factory opening in the front door is a 6x9, I'm going to 3D print a speaker adapter/ spacer, then decouple it with foam. Should I go for 6x9 component woofers (I hear the ID 6x9s are badass, but out of my range, so maybe the American Bass set)? Or, Are 6.5 Woofers with 40hz - 6khz, FS at 65hz (So cross overs at 130hz, right?) going to be just fine? I know more cone area and lower sensitivity in the 6x9 = potential for better, punchier midbass, but will it make enough of a difference to swap?

 

As I said earlier, I know it's a lot to digest everything I just threw at you, but I really appreciate any helpful input. I'm really tryin to throw something awesome together here, but I just don't have it in the budget to afford Morels, HAT, Focal (Although I could possibly get their ISS-690 component set), Hertz, or any of those other super high end brands. 

 

 

 

[ShadeTreeMechanic]

I would install what you have and go from there. Get some sound deadening material for your doors and it should sound pretty good. Sometimes less is more so add one thing at a time so you know what helps and what hurts.

[reedal]

23 minutes ago, afro said:

My questions:

1) Do I have too much amp and not enough Channels? It seems to me the more I read on low-mid budget SQ builds that folks are running Dayton Audio for midranges, and they're only like 30Wrms, so 115 would definitely be too much.

2) I've read a ton on the pro audio vs components, it seems that since I'm not going for loudness, and I don't have 155db of subs, that the warmth of Component speakers ran active is the way to go. Is this really the case? and can I get away with it on the CT woofer (very stiff cone, seems like it will be nice and punchy), CT tweet, and Powerbass (Or Dayton, or ?????) Mid?

3) Cadence has a DSP for around 2 hundo brand new. And before anyone else says it, I do know that they sold out years ago. My very first sub was the original Beast in single 2ohm. But the reviews I've seen on it favor it. Not a whole lot of harsh things said about it. I know the user interface is clunky, but I'm not overly concerned about it.

4) My factory opening in the front door is a 6x9, I'm going to 3D print a speaker adapter/ spacer, then decouple it with foam. Should I go for 6x9 component woofers (I hear the ID 6x9s are badass, but out of my range, so maybe the American Bass set)? Or, Are 6.5 Woofers with 40hz - 6khz, FS at 65hz (So cross overs at 130hz, right?) going to be just fine? I know more cone area and lower sensitivity in the 6x9 = potential for better, punchier midbass, but will it make enough of a difference to swap?

 

1) if SQ is the goal, then keep the amps. High head room (more amp RMS than speaker RMS) will help keep the amp cool and the signal clean. With head room like that, no need to adjust the gain probably, or at least very little, as you aren't looking to push the speakers to their max capabilities.

2) Different speakers provide different results, so one Pro audio speaker may perform better than a component while another doesn't come close. In my experience, my PA speakers had some midbass, but nothing like components of the same brand, and were very peaky in the 1-2khz area. You can probably get more mid bass with a component speaker. Just treat your doors (or other mounting location) properly with dampening materials. 

3) where's the question?

4) I've never done a 6.5 to 6x9 comparison, but most do say there's more punch in a 6x9. I think a 6.5 would be just fine though. As far as your crossover settings, you'll have to play around with it to see what your speakers can play and how they sound at different points, combined with where the sub can and can't perform. 

[aculous]

1. What Reedal said. 

2. IMHO stay with components and run active. Grab a CC-1 or some type of measurement device so you can set the crossover, you end up spending more money but getting a tailored result to your ride. I would get speakers that match to start off with and work up from there. A 6.5 component set from most manufacturers are going to be decent as they were designed to work together and get an adapter from SMD he sells them and the CC-1. 

3. Dunno much about the cadence DSP but I would look at something else. Audison, Rockford, JL, Helix, Audiocontrol or Alpine. All of them have reputable DSPs. pick your poison. ALSO and more importantly...you don't need a DSP. Once you get more technical and gain more know how then look into a DSP. A 4 channel amp with a good crossover setup should be fine as long as you have a way to measure and set the crossovers. 

4. As stated above go with a 6.5 and a 6.5 adapter from SMD (or https://www.wccaraudio.com/) 

[afro]

6 minutes ago, reedal said:

1) if SQ is the goal, then keep the amps. High head room (more amp RMS than speaker RMS) will help keep the amp cool and the signal clean. With head room like that, no need to adjust the gain probably, or at least very little, as you aren't looking to push the speakers to their max capabilities.

2) Different speakers provide different results, so one Pro audio speaker may perform better than a component while another doesn't come close. In my experience, my PA speakers had some midbass, but nothing like components of the same brand, and were very peaky in the 1-2khz area. You can probably get more mid bass with a component speaker. Just treat your doors (or other mounting location) properly with dampening materials. 

3) where's the question?

4) I've never done a 6.5 to 6x9 comparison, but most do say there's more punch in a 6x9. I think a 6.5 would be just fine though. As far as your crossover settings, you'll have to play around with it to see what your speakers can play and how they sound at different points, combined with where the sub can and can't perform. 

Thank you! on #3, the question was if anyone has experience with that DSP? I'm tempted to grab it at the price point. I know most of the time you get what you pay for, but is it more than what I need?

On 1) I never thought about efficiency lost to amps heating. I do have computer fans I was planning on adding to the build but you bring up a great point. I may add them to the design anyway but yeah, this is logic I hadn't thought of 

2) oh yes, deadening the doors and properly decoupling the speakers. 

4)I've been thinking to leave this alone for now and see what the new Meso's can produce. 

 

Appreciate all the input

[afro]

@aculous what adapter were you referring to in #2 in the last sentence? And thanks for the input

[aculous]

Just now, afro said:

@aculous what adapter were you referring to in #2 in the last sentence? And thanks for the input

killin me son. 

https://www.wccaraudio.com/smd-products/universal-adapters/6x9-to-6-5-3-8.html

[afro]

2 minutes ago, aculous said:

killin me son. 

https://www.wccaraudio.com/smd-products/universal-adapters/6x9-to-6-5-3-8.html

lmao, sorry man. 

[afro]

So let me ask those that have DSPs. If I get an Audison Bit One and it has 8 channels. Would I be able to bring High Level fronts only, and use the software to disperse/cross over those two channels across all 8 channels? High, Midrange, Midbass, and Sub channels. Question mainly boils down to asking if there is a requirement for front and rear in those, or if it senses the channels provided and allows you to break it apart as you wish? I have been reading some Audion and Helix manuals but can't find the answer