Are most of us actually under powering our sub's?

[Chase Wallace]

So with impedance rise and the fact that most subs can handle a lot of power for a burp, why is it that most of us match up our subwoofer's with amps that so closely match the rms rating of our subwoofer's? This might seem like a stupid question but the amp isn't going to be seeing the ohm load where it puts out full power most of the time so most of that time it's not giving the sub's near their rated power. For the small amount of time that the sub is playing a frequency that isn't causing a lot of impedance rise the sub's would see rated power. So why is it that most people match things so closely? Is this really just a safety measure that people recommend? Are the subwoofer manufacture's themselves actually accounting for impedance rise to save their subwoofer's when rating them?

I've been running some 90 rms component's for quite awhile now with an under rated 800rms amp that was tested on the amp dyno and did almost 300 rms certified and over 300 rms dynamic per channel. I set the gains with a DD-1 and expected to basically be able to reach their mechanical limit's at will with the volume knob or blow them rather quickly from thermal overload but they're still going after almost a year now. I've only had them get smelly a couple times on test tones and only after they were playing near max volume for long periods of time. I've never smelled them at all on music. I originally had them on a Rockford Fosgate amp getting 100 rms per side and was pretty disappointed so I decided to double the power and replace them when they blew but all that really happened was that they came alive near max volume with the added power. Other than not liking 120 Hz for a few minutes at max volume they haven't complained. So this really made me question if RMS ratings aren't a very rough guideline that are set to keep you from ever getting near the danger zone no matter if you do something silly like say play a test tone for minutes at a time. I realize that there are mechanical limits and thermal limits for speaker's but my understanding is that RMS ratings aren't based on either of these. 

Maybe some knowledgeable people can chime in about this or maybe some people that run their speaker's or subs way over rated power with amp's that have been proven to actually do their rated power or more can comment on their experience doing this?

 

[DiBo]

On 9/9/2018 at 5:21 PM, Chase Wallace said:

So with impedance rise and the fact that most subs can handle a lot of power for a burp, why is it that most of us match up our subwoofer's with amps that so closely match the rms rating of our subwoofer's? This might seem like a stupid question but the amp isn't going to be seeing the ohm load where it puts out full power most of the time so most of that time it's not giving the sub's near their rated power. For the small amount of time that the sub is playing a frequency that isn't causing a lot of impedance rise the sub's would see rated power. So why is it that most people match things so closely? Is this really just a safety measure that people recommend? Are the subwoofer manufacture's themselves actually accounting for impedance rise to save their subwoofer's when rating them?

I've been running some 90 rms component's for quite awhile now with an under rated 800rms amp that was tested on the amp dyno and did almost 300 rms certified and over 300 rms dynamic per channel. I set the gains with a DD-1 and expected to basically be able to reach their mechanical limit's at will with the volume knob or blow them rather quickly from thermal overload but they're still going after almost a year now. I've only had them get smelly a couple times on test tones and only after they were playing near max volume for long periods of time. I've never smelled them at all on music. I originally had them on a Rockford Fosgate amp getting 100 rms per side and was pretty disappointed so I decided to double the power and replace them when they blew but all that really happened was that they came alive near max volume with the added power. Other than not liking 120 Hz for a few minutes at max volume they haven't complained. So this really made me question if RMS ratings aren't a very rough guideline that are set to keep you from ever getting near the danger zone no matter if you do something silly like say play a test tone for minutes at a time. I realize that there are mechanical limits and thermal limits for speaker's but my understanding is that RMS ratings aren't based on either of these. 

Maybe some knowledgeable people can chime in about this or maybe some people that run their speaker's or subs way over rated power with amp's that have been proven to actually do their rated power or more can comment on their experience doing this?

 

Look at what an amp does@4 ohms I'm learning. Unless you're wiring down. For example... A Sundown sa12 does about 1000rms give or take... Don't get the sae1000 for an sa12. Get the sae2000 that does about 500@4 ohms. That's why people think their subs are taken so much more power than they are. That one sa12 probably rising to 3+ohms. 

[Broke_Audio_Addict]

All about temperatures.

At some point all you are doing ia adsing extra heat and not gaining anything at all from adding extra power.

And if you knew what say 1000watts turns into in reality it would really blow your mind.

Speakers are extremely inefficient and converting the power to noise.

Also in theory unless you double power there would be no noticeable gain in output.

So more heat, no extra output, not worth the risk.

Now what you may have noticed in your system but putting a bigger amp on your front stage and them sounding better is a huge gain in dynamic headroom.

[Kyblack76]

Under powering?! Not here. Not in our daily/demo builds, and certainly not when we are in the lanes ... nope. 

[SnowDrifter]

Meh I've run a 3.5k to a kicker comp 12

And an 8k to an SA12

In both situations, just give 'em as much power as they'll suffer before hitting mechanical limits LOL

[Chase Wallace]

On 9/15/2018 at 4:11 PM, SnowDrifter said:

Meh I've run a 3.5k to a kicker comp 12

And an 8k to an SA12

In both situations, just give 'em as much power as they'll suffer before hitting mechanical limits LOL

 

That's what I'm talking about. I just stay away from getting near the clipping point and I've never had either of the two amps that I'm talking about shut down from heat and and I'm driving 3 hour trips with it just below clipping.

The difference was night and day between the two amps. There is a video of this amp tested on an AD-1 putting out like 325 per channel dynamically It got very close to 300  certified. It's closer to a 1200watt amp. than it is to the 800watt rating on the box.

 

There must have been a lot left to gain from more power and I'm guessing the bigger amp is closer to 3x as powerful  in every aspect vs the first smaller one. I would think tripping the power would make a noticeable difference.  So far they just seem to love the power and really start to shine when pushed hard. I was highly disappointed before giving them more power but now the mids vibrate the mirrors. 

 

It seems like some of you might not fully get what I'm talking about. I realize the impedance rise will cause less output but that's going to be true for every amp/sub. The fact that you do have impedance rise is why I'm starting to think people match up their amp and sub too closely. For instance 1000rms sub pared with a 1000rms amp. You're not really getting near what the sub can actually handle after impedance rise. That tends to make me think that we should be putting  much stronger amps on them so that they actually reach their rated power after rise.-It's just a thought.

[Ninja_v1.0]

so much power i need spares...

so much power i have my own recone section

so much power.... the car smells like coil constantly

so much power... you get the point

 

 

[Skullz]

I never run at rated power on front stages, ever.

No less than double and preferably more.

Speakers can take way more than rated and do.

This is why you buy known named quality brands, the more power the better the results.

[ckeeler11]

On 9/18/2018 at 4:31 AM, Chase Wallace said:

 

That's what I'm talking about. I just stay away from getting near the clipping point and I've never had either of the two amps that I'm talking about shut down from heat and and I'm driving 3 hour trips with it just below clipping.

Heat is what kills speaker coils not the amps. Yes heat does kill amps but in this case we are talking speakers since you are not overdriving the amps (clipping). Depending on crossover points its easy to feed way more power to your speakers than the manufacturer rating. trying to play a 6.5" midbass down into 50 Hz with double the rms will  most likely kill it but raise that crossover to 80 or so and you will most likely be alright.

[slowfkncar]

This is usually where build quality shows imho, high end modern drivers can actually take quite a bit of abuse, especially 2500w+ woofers.