Jump to content

Anyone know of Nexgen lithium batteries?


Recommended Posts

12 hours ago, snb778 said:

1. So the AH x C rating = max amps? What exactly does that mean "Max" amps? until what happens?  

2. Each CELL has 70ah? wtf kind of cells are you using? lol.  

3. I guess what im struggling with is despite the size, if a smaller cell has 3.2v, and 8ah and so does a bigger one...whats the difference?  Can't just be the fact that they're bigger.

4. I see a lot of these lithium batteries say 100 amps or 200 amps (not amp hours)....what is that stating?  Will an amp that pulls 300-400amps not work with these? 

Thanks for the help

1.  That's my understanding (if I'm wrong hopefully someone else chimes in).  Max amps means the max amperage the cells can output for a specific amount of time, youll see a max discharge rate noted as a number+C then usually a time duration for said max rating.

2.  yes, each cell is rated for 70aH.  these are an updated version of the cells im using, with a lower aH rating 60 vs 70 which i have, max discharge current of each cell is 600 amps, this number does not combine with more cells, it will be the total across the bank regardless of the final voltage load they get wired to:  https://www.ev-power.eu/_d1575.html#tab2  you could get 4 of these and connect them to present a 12.8v final load with a max charging current of 16v, so well within a vehicles charging voltages.

3.  the difference is basically reserves.  physically a smaller battery cannot hold as much reserve as a larger battery.   a smaller battery will discharge much faster than a large one.

4. the amp rating youre seeing is the dumbed down max discharge rate.  however, if it does not give you a C rating and time duration, I'd assume this is a 1 second max rating, which will not do well in audio.  you are correct in thinking that a 12.8v bank of the 200 amp cells would not do much good when presented with an amp that's attempting to pull double it's rated discharge current.

 

my pleasure, we're all here for the same reason, to get smarter and bang harder.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 30
  • Created
  • Last Reply
3 minutes ago, bmwking said:

1.  That's my understanding (if I'm wrong hopefully someone else chimes in).  Max amps means the max amperage the cells can output for a specific amount of time, youll see a max discharge rate noted as a number+C then usually a time duration for said max rating.

2.  yes, each cell is rated for 70aH.  these are an updated version of the cells im using, with a lower aH rating 60 vs 70 which i have, max discharge current of each cell is 600 amps, this number does not combine with more cells, it will be the total across the bank regardless of the final voltage load they get wired to:  https://www.ev-power.eu/_d1575.html#tab2  you could get 4 of these and connect them to present a 12.8v final load with a max charging current of 16v, so well within a vehicles charging voltages.

3.  the difference is basically reserves.  physically a smaller battery cannot hold as much reserve as a larger battery.   a smaller battery will discharge much faster than a large one.

4. the amp rating youre seeing is the dumbed down max discharge rate.  however, if it does not give you a C rating and time duration, I'd assume this is a 1 second max rating, which will not do well in audio.  you are correct in thinking that a 12.8v bank of the 200 amp cells would not do much good when presented with an amp that's attempting to pull double it's rated discharge current.

 

my pleasure, we're all here for the same reason, to get smarter and bang harder.

 

You bring up a good point, I've never seen a "reserve capacity" rating on lithium batteries.

 

Thanks again for the help!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, snb778 said:

You bring up a good point, I've never seen a "reserve capacity" rating on lithium batteries.

 

Thanks again for the help!

think of it like this, if you were having a party with a lot thirsty people coming, would you want a keg or a single 12oz bottle to share?  the cells i linked are like a keg, the 18650s are like a single bottle.  same beer(voltage), but one has a lot more to give.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/16/2019 at 10:33 AM, bmwking said:

think of it like this, if you were having a party with a lot thirsty people coming, would you want a keg or a single 12oz bottle to share?  the cells i linked are like a keg, the 18650s are like a single bottle.  same beer(voltage), but one has a lot more to give.

I hear what you are saying, but in a world of quickly changing technology, the goal is always to make things smaller and more efficient.  Theres got to be a rating in these cells that determines how much "capacity" they have.  If we just looked at it as bigger is better, my rebuttal would be look at a 1gb drive 5-10 years ago....it was the size of a tablet....now they are fitting 50+gb in a thumb drive...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, snb778 said:

I hear what you are saying, but in a world of quickly changing technology, the goal is always to make things smaller and more efficient.  Theres got to be a rating in these cells that determines how much "capacity" they have.  If we just looked at it as bigger is better, my rebuttal would be look at a 1gb drive 5-10 years ago....it was the size of a tablet....now they are fitting 50+gb in a thumb drive...

for sure, i get what you're saying.  however, i ain't never seen a 1gb drive the size of a tablet lol.  if we're talking internal HDD, the 3.5" standard has been around for at least 35 years now.  back when platter drives were a thing they were bigger than records and held much less.  a better comparison would be a 1tb microsd vs a standard 3.5 1tb drive (which did you know the 1st 1tb 3.5" drive came out in 2007?)  all that's semantics tho, i still get your point. im just a tech nerd so i like that stuff :)

as far as capacity, that's the amp hour (aH) rating.  higher number, longer life.

all things being the same, sure you could get like 100 18650 AA batteries and figure out how to series parallel them all to get a final load of 12-13v at rest so you could have the equivalent of a ~60aH battery, and then get a sophisticated BMS to keep each cell topped up.  or... you could get 4 of the cells i linked and achieve the same if not a better result.  so it's down to simplicity.  oh and safety.  CALB cells are known for their inherent safety when it comes to automotive use.  the 18650s are... much less so.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, bmwking said:

for sure, i get what you're saying.  however, i ain't never seen a 1gb drive the size of a tablet lol.  if we're talking internal HDD, the 3.5" standard has been around for at least 35 years now.  back when platter drives were a thing they were bigger than records and held much less.  a better comparison would be a 1tb microsd vs a standard 3.5 1tb drive (which did you know the 1st 1tb 3.5" drive came out in 2007?)  all that's semantics tho, i still get your point. im just a tech nerd so i like that stuff :)

as far as capacity, that's the amp hour (aH) rating.  higher number, longer life.

all things being the same, sure you could get like 100 18650 AA batteries and figure out how to series parallel them all to get a final load of 12-13v at rest so you could have the equivalent of a ~60aH battery, and then get a sophisticated BMS to keep each cell topped up.  or... you could get 4 of the cells i linked and achieve the same if not a better result.  so it's down to simplicity.  oh and safety.  CALB cells are known for their inherent safety when it comes to automotive use.  the 18650s are... much less so.

ok I understand what you are saying now.  

Kind of different question... For a car audio application, isnt a higher C-rating more relevant than the "AH"?  For example, wouldn't 15ah battery with 30 C-rating be better than a 50ah with a 5 c-rating?  Quicker recharge, slow discharge rates...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/16/2019 at 10:24 AM, bmwking said:

2.  yes, each cell is rated for 70aH.  these are an updated version of the cells im using, with a lower aH rating 60 vs 70 which i have, max discharge current of each cell is 600 amps, this number does not combine with more cells, it will be the total across the bank regardless of the final voltage load they get wired to:  https://www.ev-power.eu/_d1575.html#tab2  you could get 4 of these and connect them to present a 12.8v final load with a max charging current of 16v, so well within a vehicles charging voltages.

 

These cells say 3C continuous, so does that mean 3*60=180A continuous discharge rating?

How about short duration discharges? Could it safely discharge 300A over say 1 second?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, snb778 said:

ok I understand what you are saying now.  

Kind of different question... For a car audio application, isnt a higher C-rating more relevant than the "AH"?  For example, wouldn't 15ah battery with 30 C-rating be better than a 50ah with a 5 c-rating?  Quicker recharge, slow discharge rates...

yes and no, you can get a lower aH rating and make use of a lithium battery's inherent higher C rating.  Hence the ability of Limitless to sell 15ah lithium packs.  Personally, I wouldn't ever use such a small one, but that's just me.  I'm sure it has it's applications.  Ideally you want a lithium with at least a 7C rating, in my experience at least.  to make sure you can handle the current needs of your system.  couple that with at least a 60aH rating and you have a recipe for a battery that can handle at least 400A max discharge bursts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, k58.cross said:

These cells say 3C continuous, so does that mean 3*60=180A continuous discharge rating?

How about short duration discharges? Could it safely discharge 300A over say 1 second?

yes it does actually, but the duration of time is important here.  that 3C continuous (or ~180A) is for ~15 min max before the battery is drained below it's usable charge.

short duration discharges are the line right below where you read that, noted at 10C (~600A) for 5 seconds per minute.  which makes it an excellent choice for the demands of music

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, snb778 said:

ok I understand what you are saying now.  

Kind of different question... For a car audio application, isnt a higher C-rating more relevant than the "AH"?  For example, wouldn't 15ah battery with 30 C-rating be better than a 50ah with a 5 c-rating?  Quicker recharge, slow discharge rates...

I've been trying to get to this all day but I've been playing league play on Call of Duty lol. Sorry. For our use yes, C rating determines whether we can use it or not so it is essentially more important than the AH. But you still have to have ah to support your load. But since lithium can recover at a much greater rate then you don't have to have as much ah as you would with agm------- I believe.

Sitting around waiting to be installed:

  4 FI X 10

 270 CES alt

D3400/73ah lithium

 AA 3800.1

  (2) AA 75.4

     

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Who's Online   1 Member, 0 Anonymous, 381 Guests (See full list)




×
×
  • Create New...