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Guest meow meow

Will this melt my voice coil?

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Guest meow meow
10 minutes ago, CstrokerV said:

Depending on your box you are gonna melt the coils on 5k too and/or destroy the soft parts

I appreciate your response. The audio engineer was well aware that 7kW could potentially be delivered to the driver when he designed the enclosure.

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So let me level with you: and this isn't really a great answer, but it's the truth

 

You get to a point where power handling just gets thrown out the window and how hot your gear runs is going to be dependent on factors that I don't yet know how to account for. Thing like excursion, air temp, box rise, back pressure on the cone, frequency, and the shape of the sine wave (or square wave) making it to your driver

 

You'll just need to feel your build out as you play it and be mindful of your limits. Keep a nose open for thermal, and an ear open for when things get close to mechanical limits. You can feed kind of a way lot more power to your gear than the manufacturer rates it at if you're careful.

 

Anecdotally, I've overpowered my gear to hell and more often than not I'd see mechanical limits before thermal when the power is clean. Just bear in mind the usual disclaimer of every build is unique / nothing is guaranteed still applies.

 

For what its worth:

All on a Crossfire 8k on 16v

-Sundown sa12 at 1 ohm hit mechanical limits regardless of box before thermal

- Crossfire xs spl at 1/3 ohm (similar to old school btl triple stack) 12s hit mechanical before thermal

- Sundown team 15 at 1 ohm would stay good until it clipped. Fuckin' thing gobbled everything I could throw at it. 1/4 ohm got more dicey on the amp side and would go into protect

- crossfire xs spl (newer ones, 4" coil) 1/3 ohm would be good until I pushed either below 24hz or above about 45. Bit odd but that box was tuned lowwwww

- Kicker comp 12 meme'd but still was fine with the volume low. Same trend on mechanical before thermal with clean power

 

 

 

I hope that helps? Sorry it's not a very cut and dry answer. But the honest truth is in big builds, numbers stop mattering and your experience as a user plays much more as far as equipment safety goes. I'm a big fan of overpowering because it gives a lot of flexibility with equipment, but at the same time it can be pretty risky. Slip up and you'll launch your cones into orbit though

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Guest meow meow
9 hours ago, SnowDrifter said:

So let me level with you: and this isn't really a great answer, but it's the truth

 

You get to a point where power handling just gets thrown out the window and how hot your gear runs is going to be dependent on factors that I don't yet know how to account for. Thing like excursion, air temp, box rise, back pressure on the cone, frequency, and the shape of the sine wave (or square wave) making it to your driver

 

You'll just need to feel your build out as you play it and be mindful of your limits. Keep a nose open for thermal, and an ear open for when things get close to mechanical limits. You can feed kind of a way lot more power to your gear than the manufacturer rates it at if you're careful.

 

Anecdotally, I've overpowered my gear to hell and more often than not I'd see mechanical limits before thermal when the power is clean. Just bear in mind the usual disclaimer of every build is unique / nothing is guaranteed still applies.

 

For what its worth:

All on a Crossfire 8k on 16v

-Sundown sa12 at 1 ohm hit mechanical limits regardless of box before thermal

- Crossfire xs spl at 1/3 ohm (similar to old school btl triple stack) 12s hit mechanical before thermal

- Sundown team 15 at 1 ohm would stay good until it clipped. Fuckin' thing gobbled everything I could throw at it. 1/4 ohm got more dicey on the amp side and would go into protect

- crossfire xs spl (newer ones, 4" coil) 1/3 ohm would be good until I pushed either below 24hz or above about 45. Bit odd but that box was tuned lowwwww

- Kicker comp 12 meme'd but still was fine with the volume low. Same trend on mechanical before thermal with clean power

 

 

 

I hope that helps? Sorry it's not a very cut and dry answer. But the honest truth is in big builds, numbers stop mattering and your experience as a user plays much more as far as equipment safety goes. I'm a big fan of overpowering because it gives a lot of flexibility with equipment, but at the same time it can be pretty risky. Slip up and you'll launch your cones into orbit though

This is precisely the kind of info I was after, thank you for this! I understand the concepts of driver thermal and mechanical limitations at an elementary level, though I'm no engineer. Thermomechanical limitations with Fi drivers, specifically the competition level stuff, from what I've read, tend to be at a higher level than more common retail commercial drivers, hence the focused question.

 

Also, I'm a night nurse, so don't dismiss me as a brand new account, one-post noob that disappears forever after asking why my severely underpowered sub sounds like shit after turning my gain and bass boost pots all the way up if you don't get a response from me during regular business hours!

 

I also understand that there is no general formula that applies to output, and that the variables are so vast that to ask such a basic question automatically puts doubt into the audience's minds regarding my level of knowledge and understanding, but I thought I'd take a stab at posing the question to a large group of "bassheads" here at SMD as the SQ crowd over at another popudiymalar forum haven't been too receptive or responsive to SPL guys. They seem to be more concerned about how their response curves look after 50hrs of REW work instead of how it actually sounds to their own ears. Great group though, very knowledgeable, many of them. I'm in the middle though, as I'm looking for an SPL monster with my sub, and SQ with my front stage. SQL.

 

I realize that I'm not going to push numbers like the guys with octo-sub setups with 1.21 gigawatts going to them, but neither am I running on stock electrical. I'm not sure why it feels like overpowering drivers is so taboo to folks, as it's SOP in pro audio. Longevity, reliability, headroom for days and keeping things cool are the goals. Just because there are 600hp under the hood doesn't mean the tires are going to break at ever intersection launch. The accelerator pedal to your car's engine is as a level controller is to a stereo amplifier.

 

Thanks again for taking the time to share that confidence-inspiring experience! I'm going to proceed with the SALT-8 plan. I am building RCA level controllers (3 of them) using Bourns 50k pots to modulate the entire system. Doubtful the gain knob will ever see a degree above zero, but we shall see! It will, and has already been, a fun project!

 

 

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Guest meow meow
4 hours ago, AaronT said:

11k on that is very questionable.

Full tilt I'd expect disaster

I don't expect the driver will ever even see 8k. I have a lot of data acquisition components built that are being incorporated into the build so that I can monitor power at several points along the line from alternator to driver and driver load. The bass and music is cool, but the technical stuff and build is what's exciting for me.

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Guest meow meow
9 hours ago, SnowDrifter said:

Anecdotally, I've overpowered my gear to hell and more often than not I'd see mechanical limits before thermal when the power is clean. Just bear in mind the usual disclaimer of every build is unique / nothing is guaranteed still applies.

 

Bingo, this stuck with me. Thanks for that! Makes so much sense. If sending DC to the coils (mine are D2, btw, so I will be wiring down to an amp-safe 1ohm only), you induce heat as the coil wants to react in one direction only with the flux field. Non-clipped signal has a clear path to ground and therefore stays cool, but now xmax limits are stressed. Am I understanding this correctly?

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2 hours ago, CrackFactory said:

Sorry for going off topic but please post pics and videos of possible. I am extremely interested to see this.

Will do. I just have a bunch of components lying around right now. According to Sundown, the SALT series amps will be released late December or early January, so hopefully I'll have the enclosure finished by then. I'm also waiting my pre-orders for the Audio Dynamics DSP which has a ship date of 31 December, and the new Audio Dynamics ADK1800.6 amp for the front stage. Those are the only components I'm waiting for, I have everything else. I am working on sound deadening, and getting all the electronics and drivers installed. The enclosure, sub amp and battery are all absolutely massive and are going to take some serious planning and design work to get stuffed into the car without taking my back seat, if it will even be possible in the first place.

 

It's still early and I'm probably a couple of months out due to yet-to-be released components, but that gives me time to do a thorough job and take my time doing so. I do it all myself, and I don't do sub-par work.

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Guest meow meow

The below video is what I'm talking about. I haven't commented on it but I am going to ask the uploader for a few details (what it's wired to, how he came to the wattage value he states, what his gains/settings look like, etc.), but this driver is near, if not at it's mechanical limits using a 6k. He states the driver is seeing about 3k-3.5k. Based upon what others have posted on various forums, my BTL NEO 15, factory rated at 2500RMS, which is most likely an under-rating, according to many over the years in different forums, can handle higher numbers. If this is so, and I'm clamping 5k with the SALT-8 without issue, then herein lies my rationale for the SALT-8 selection, again, with the ability to limit input voltage (RCA level controllers that I have built) and modulate to safe levels, of course.

 

 

 

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