slowfkncar Posted August 21, 2020 Report Share Posted August 21, 2020 The t/s parameters will dictate your overall system Q in a said enclosure, unless they are exactly the same on paper they wont sound the same. https://www.diyaudioandvideo.com/Calculator/SpeakerBoxEnclosure/ ^ have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1point21gigawatts Posted August 21, 2020 Report Share Posted August 21, 2020 13 minutes ago, slowfkncar said: The t/s parameters will dictate your overall system Q in a said enclosure, unless they are exactly the same on paper they wont sound the same. https://www.diyaudioandvideo.com/Calculator/SpeakerBoxEnclosure/ ^ have fun. In a “small sealed enclosure” on the same amp, “minimal rms”, any subwoofer would sound about the same, not the same, but close enough where you would say to yourself, “it sounds the same and buying this upgraded subwoofer was a waste of money”. In that enclosure on that minimal rms, only two t/s parameters that in unison with each other would make a half way noticeable difference and that would be the amount of QTS is reference to the VAS. FS doesn’t have to be factored because it’s a sealed enclosure. That’s why if he is bent on keeping that subwoofer enclosure, the only way to make a truly noticeable difference is upgrade the subwoofer and amp. “How can we help you?” “And don’t forget to tell them that the customer isn’t always right.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowfkncar Posted August 21, 2020 Report Share Posted August 21, 2020 2 hours ago, 1point21gigawatts said: In a “small sealed enclosure” on the same amp, “minimal rms”, any subwoofer would sound about the same, not the same, but close enough where you would say to yourself, “it sounds the same and buying this upgraded subwoofer was a waste of money”. In that enclosure on that minimal rms, only two t/s parameters that in unison with each other would make a half way noticeable difference and that would be the amount of QTS is reference to the VAS. FS doesn’t have to be factored because it’s a sealed enclosure. That’s why if he is bent on keeping that subwoofer enclosure, the only way to make a truly noticeable difference is upgrade the subwoofer and amp. Does it sound the same or not? Le,spl & xmax can also be a noticeable difference even in a sealed enclosure. I have a 15" SE HST in 1.2 net sealed, it digs down into the mid 20's with output no problem but what happens if i put my zv5 in there? Yup, its peaky as hell, same box, same power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CstrokerV Posted August 21, 2020 Report Share Posted August 21, 2020 One brand can have tonal differences from another also Not as bad as mids and highs but it can be there my build http://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/142505-small-build-log-4-dc-lvl3-10s-tl-update-link-to-rebuild/ http://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/154258-rebuild-6-lvl3-12s-update-small-video-nothing-spectacular/ new build http://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/188181-03-trailblazer-slow-build-8-dc-lvl3-12-m1-motor-m2-parts/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slybu Posted August 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2020 i dont think i can get skar audio stuff in the uk. alpine type r seems to have a lot of excursion compared to my current pioneer sub. what does excursion mean in terms of what you hear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1point21gigawatts Posted August 21, 2020 Report Share Posted August 21, 2020 12 hours ago, slowfkncar said: Does it sound the same or not? Le,spl & xmax can also be a noticeable difference even in a sealed enclosure. I have a 15" SE HST in 1.2 net sealed, it digs down into the mid 20's with output no problem but what happens if i put my zv5 in there? Yup, its peaky as hell, same box, same power. It doesn’t 100% sound the same but sounds close to where somebody that doesn’t have an ear for audio would say it sounded the same. And you are comparing 2 subwoofers that shouldn’t be compared in a super small sealed enclosure because a zv5 isn’t meant to be in a sealed enclosure because of its Q. And how are you gonna compare subwoofers that are so far apart? And like I said, QTS in unison with VAS is the only thing that would make a noticeable difference in a sealed enclosure. Plus, how are you gonna base how low of a frequency a subwoofer can achieve in a enclosure on the subwoofer itself? It’s mainly based on the enclosure. And in a sealed enclosure almost any subwoofer can achieve almost any bass frequency. And for xmax in subwoofers to make any noticeable difference on very minimal rms is if it’s a huge xmax difference in access of 10mm or more. And even that wouldn’t make a huge difference. I don’t understand why you would go against recommending a bigger amp if the customer wants more bass. The only thing that needs to be done is to make the customer happy. “How can we help you?” “And don’t forget to tell them that the customer isn’t always right.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1point21gigawatts Posted August 21, 2020 Report Share Posted August 21, 2020 Plus I just looked at the t/s parameters of that subwoofer and the 12” alpine type r and that pioneer subwoofer isn’t ideal for a sealed enclosure even though it recommends either a sealed enclosure or ported enclosure. But that alpine type r is ideal to use in a sealed enclosure because of the QTS. The xmax is almost double. So in this situation since the VAS of that pioneer subwoofer is 134.31 liters, which is big, and the QTS is 0.294 and the VAS of that alpine subwoofer is 48 liters and the QTS is 0.56, in a sealed enclosure even on minimal rms there would be a difference because of the crazy t/s parameters on that pioneer subwoofer. That alpine subwoofer would perform better on that same amp in that enclosure. So in this rare case, there would be a noticeable difference and I was wrong. It happens sometimes. My dumbass should of looked at the t/s parameters to begin with. “How can we help you?” “And don’t forget to tell them that the customer isn’t always right.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1point21gigawatts Posted August 21, 2020 Report Share Posted August 21, 2020 12 hours ago, slowfkncar said: Does it sound the same or not? Le,spl & xmax can also be a noticeable difference even in a sealed enclosure. I have a 15" SE HST in 1.2 net sealed, it digs down into the mid 20's with output no problem but what happens if i put my zv5 in there? Yup, its peaky as hell, same box, same power. My bad homie. “How can we help you?” “And don’t forget to tell them that the customer isn’t always right.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1point21gigawatts Posted August 21, 2020 Report Share Posted August 21, 2020 Buying a 12” alpine type r would sound better for sure. But if you want more bass, get a bigger amp in the future. “How can we help you?” “And don’t forget to tell them that the customer isn’t always right.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slybu Posted August 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2020 Sounds like a plan. Change sub now and then in a years time saved up cash for a new amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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