How many runs of 0ga do I need

[Never2Loud]

Hello all, I’m upgrading my system from 2-10” dc audio level 2 subs on a dc audio 1.2k to dc Audi 2k and 2-10” level 3 subs. I’m currently running stock batteries and stock dual alternators on a 2017 f250 with one run of 0ga to the 1.2k and a 90.4. I just got a mechman 370 amp alternator and 2 D6500 to put under the hood. I was going just to swap out the subs and amp for the new ones, but right now the box is under the seat and I was thinking about make a center console box for the rear and reuse the 1.2k and the level 2’s so I can have more bass. So my question is, how many runs of 0ga should I run to the back of my truck to power(all dc audio) a 90.4, 1.2k and the 2k? I was think of 3 runs at first, but now I’m thinking I would only need to 2 runs. Basically I would have one run to power the 90.4 and the 1.2k(as it is now) and the other run of 0ga would be just for the 2k amp. Does that sound about right? I figured I ask before I want overkill on 3 runs of 0ga if I don’t need it and just 2 runs would be fine, thanks for all the help you guys have always given me

[Dafaseles]

I wouldn't recommend running 2 different series subs. You're going to run into blending and cancellation issues with the sound because if the different ways the subs are made. Different suspension stiffness, different excursion limits and things like that. 

But if you're going to do it regardless of what we tell you, you'd need 2 runs of 1/0 from the alternator to the batteries so you can access all the amperage that alternator makes. To the amplifiers, only 2 runs would be pushing it I would think. I would do 2 runs of 2/0 if that's an option. Then from a fused distribution block, run to the amps. Though if the single run is working now and not choking the amps, another single run to the 2k by itself would work, though like I said, I'd be afraid of choking the amperage to the amps. 

What it's the stock amperage of the F250 alternators? It's less than 200 amps each? 

[Never2Loud]

55 minutes ago, Dafaseles said:

I wouldn't recommend running 2 different series subs. You're going to run into blending and cancellation issues with the sound because if the different ways the subs are made. Different suspension stiffness, different excursion limits and things like that. 

But if you're going to do it regardless of what we tell you, you'd need 2 runs of 1/0 from the alternator to the batteries so you can access all the amperage that alternator makes. To the amplifiers, only 2 runs would be pushing it I would think. I would do 2 runs of 2/0 if that's an option. Then from a fused distribution block, run to the amps. Though if the single run is working now and not choking the amps, another single run to the 2k by itself would work, though like I said, I'd be afraid of choking the amperage to the amps. 

What it's the stock amperage of the F250 alternators? It's less than 200 amps each? 

The subs are not going to be in the same box. One is under the seat firing down port towards the door and the console box I’m thinking about doing is going to be subs up with the port up or facing the back of the front seats or might go sealed. One good thing about this is my buddy has a couple boxes for 10’s that are empty that I can try out to see how it sounds before I build my box and make a new amp rack. I believe the stock alternators are 220 amps each, but I just got my mechman 370 amp alternator to put in. I would do 2/0ga, but I already have 100 feet of 0ga ofc from dc audio. So should I do 3 power runs from the front  to the back into my SMD distribution block? And should I do 3 runs from the alternators as well? And how about the batteries, should I connect them with 3 runs also or can I get away with 2 runs? And should I do all my grounds in 3 runs of 0ga as well to or can I get away with just 2 runs of 0ga for the grounds? I have right now 0ga to 4ga reducers going into my 90.4 and 1.2k and the 2k will be getting dual 0ga input blocks so she’ll be getting plenty of juice. I understand the subs are different, but their not going in the same box. Back in the day my buddy had 2-15s(old school hcca’s) in his bronco and added 2-12s the old school kicker solo’s and another amp to his setup and it sounded good(he couldn’t pass up the offer, the guy was selling them dirt cheap). I don’t remember what amps they were, but when he added the 12s it definitely was louder and hit harder. They were in separate boxes with the hcca’s subs and port facing the rear and the kickers were on the rear seat with the subs and port facing up and I didn’t notice any cancellation or phasing out. I think with trial and error I can get it to sound good. I was more worried about how many runs of 0ga I should do, thanks for all the help and I really appreciate it, but I need more bass and a blow though is out of the question as I tow my big ass mud truck with a gooseneck trailer and need my bed or else there would be 6-12s back there! So you think I won’t be able to make the system blend together and sound good? If not then I guess I’ll just stick with the level 3s and call it a day, thanks for your time with helping me Dafaseles 👍🏻

[Dafaseles]

4 minutes ago, Never2Loud said:

The subs are not going to be in the same box. One is under the seat firing down port towards the door and the console box I’m thinking about doing is going to be subs up with the port up or facing the back of the front seats or might go sealed. One good thing about this is my buddy has a couple boxes for 10’s that are empty that I can try out to see how it sounds before I build my box and make a new amp rack. I believe the stock alternators are 220 amps each, but I just got my mechman 370 amp alternator to put in. I would do 2/0ga, but I already have 100 feet of 0ga ofc from dc audio. So should I do 3 power runs from the front  to the back into my SMD distribution block? And should I do 3 runs from the alternators as well? And how about the batteries, should I connect them with 3 runs also or can I get away with 2 runs? And should I do all my grounds in 3 runs of 0ga as well to or can I get away with just 2 runs of 0ga for the grounds? I have right now 0ga to 4ga reducers going into my 90.4 and 1.2k and the 2k will be getting dual 0ga input blocks so she’ll be getting plenty of juice. I understand the subs are different, but their not going in the same box. Back in the day my buddy had 2-15s(old school hcca’s) in his bronco and added 2-12s the old school kicker solo’s and another amp to his setup and it sounded good(he couldn’t pass up the offer, the guy was selling them dirt cheap). I don’t remember what amps they were, but when he added the 12s it definitely was louder and hit harder. They were in separate boxes with the hcca’s subs and port facing the rear and the kickers were on the rear seat with the subs and port facing up and I didn’t notice any cancellation or phasing out. I think with trial and error I can get it to sound good. I was more worried about how many runs of 0ga I should do, thanks for all the help and I really appreciate it, but I need more bass and a blow though is out of the question as I tow my big ass mud truck with a gooseneck trailer and need my bed or else there would be 6-12s back there! So you think I won’t be able to make the system blend together and sound good? If not then I guess I’ll just stick with the level 3s and call it a day, thanks for your time with helping me Dafaseles 👍🏻

So, without going at looking at each individual amp myself, a good indicator of what kind of wiring you need is the fuses the manufacturer recommends. 1 1/0 run of OFC is good for about 350 amps of current. If you have, let's say 3 amps that the total fuse rating for all 3 equals to 300, on paper, one run of 1/0 should be sufficient. I hope that makes sense. 

I would think 440 amps of alternator amperage (you did say you where running 2 correct?) Would be way better than 370. Mechman is some quality stuff though. That's up to you man. 

I think 2 runs of the 1/0 between the batteries would be sufficient power transfer. 3 wouldn't hurt though. There's no such thing as too much electrical. 

Running that amount of power, if you do the grounding part of the big three with 1 run if the 1/0, that should be fine. 

I personally think you'd be louder all the way through 20 hz to 80 hz if you stick to 1 series of those subs. But I'm not going to talk you out of it. It's all for fun right? 

Also, before you start rewiring and changing things in your truck, look into seeing if your year has any type of voltage regulating system. I found myself scrambling for a plan to ground all my equipment when I learned my truck had one. It can change shit lol. 

[Dafaseles]

To build off my last post about the canceling issues, here's the way I see it and my opinion....

The level 2 has an x max of 22mm, the level 3 has an x max of 23mm. It doesn't sound like a lot, but it's all math. 50 hz is 50 cycles (up and down) per second. If one speaker has to travel farther than the other, then it also has to move faster to reach its 50 cycles per second. Eventually, within that second, the speakers will be out of phase, and you'll lose output. Regardless if they're in separate enclosures, the sound waves will not interact with each other in a desirable manner. 

I'm not going to tell anyone they shouldn't do something (unless it's dangerous or will hurt their equipment). Car audio, to me, should be fun. So if you think it would be fun to try, I say go for it. 

Can't do a blow through? You ever think to do bucket seats in the back and build a center console all the way back? There's your 6 12's right there (or maybe just 4 lol)! Inconvenient to your passengers, maybe... but it's your truck! Lol. Motors in the air and slapping! 

[Never2Loud]

1 hour ago, Dafaseles said:

So, without going at looking at each individual amp myself, a good indicator of what kind of wiring you need is the fuses the manufacturer recommends. 1 1/0 run of OFC is good for about 350 amps of current. If you have, let's say 3 amps that the total fuse rating for all 3 equals to 300, on paper, one run of 1/0 should be sufficient. I hope that makes sense. 

I would think 440 amps of alternator amperage (you did say you where running 2 correct?) Would be way better than 370. Mechman is some quality stuff though. That's up to you man. 

I think 2 runs of the 1/0 between the batteries would be sufficient power transfer. 3 wouldn't hurt though. There's no such thing as too much electrical. 

Running that amount of power, if you do the grounding part of the big three with 1 run if the 1/0, that should be fine. 

I personally think you'd be louder all the way through 20 hz to 80 hz if you stick to 1 series of those subs. But I'm not going to talk you out of it. It's all for fun right? 

Also, before you start rewiring and changing things in your truck, look into seeing if your year has any type of voltage regulating system. I found myself scrambling for a plan to ground all my equipment when I learned my truck had one. It can change shit lol. 

It’s a 2017 f250 6.7 diesel. I heard someone before say something about the alternators switching back and forth between each other, but I could never really get a straight answer. I wish they  made bucket seats for my year and I would do that. How about scenario: what if I did the console with 1-12” level 3? It’s the same soft parts as the 10” just 2” bigger?

[Never2Loud]

And as for the factory alternators putting out that much power I don’t believe it and that why I got a mechman. And mechman only makes the large case for my truck and could only replace just the one alternator or I would of replaced both of them. They said they could build me a 240 amp one, but my stocker should be putting out about that much anyway. Maybe I need to rethink this.....

[Dafaseles]

That 370 isn't a mistake. Don't worry about that. I had a single mechman 370 and 2 80 ah AGM batteries powering around 4000 watts with ease and that same alternator is coming with me into my next build. It's a beast. If you doubt the stock output, you know the mechman output is legit. 

I still wouldn't mix and match subs. If it was a good idea for sound quality or output, you'd see it done in competitions where the results are mapped out in black and white leaving nothing to personal interpretation. That being said, that's just my opinion. I'm not telling you not to do it. If it sounds like fun to you, who am I to ruin your fun. 

I wouldn't think that alternator thing you mentioned would mess with the voltage your amplifiers would see. In my truck, I have a Regulated Voltage Controller (RVC). What it does exactly is still a bit foggy, but it's to help out the gas mileage. When the alternator is cold, it'll tell it to pump out 14.7 volts, but after it warms up, it'll drop it to 13.8. Then, if the battery needs a kick, it'll push it to around 15-15.3 at times. What screwed me up is it also keeps my battery between 80 and 90% charged to preserve battery life. Grounding anything to the frame will alter it's readings and can severely under charge or even over charge my battery. So I had to learn a different way to ground. I just didn't want you to get too deep then find out that your truck had one. 

And as for the bucket seats, they might not make any specifically for your truck.... but anything can be fabricated. I don't know your personal situation... but throw enough money to the right person, any problem can be fixed lol. But I know how it is. I'm shopping all my own work in my truck because shits expensive! Lol

 

[Never2Loud]

10 minutes ago, Dafaseles said:

That 370 isn't a mistake. Don't worry about that. I had a single mechman 370 and 2 80 ah AGM batteries powering around 4000 watts with ease and that same alternator is coming with me into my next build. It's a beast. If you doubt the stock output, you know the mechman output is legit. 

I still wouldn't mix and match subs. If it was a good idea for sound quality or output, you'd see it done in competitions where the results are mapped out in black and white leaving nothing to personal interpretation. That being said, that's just my opinion. I'm not telling you not to do it. If it sounds like fun to you, who am I to ruin your fun. 

I wouldn't think that alternator thing you mentioned would mess with the voltage your amplifiers would see. In my truck, I have a Regulated Voltage Controller (RVC). What it does exactly is still a bit foggy, but it's to help out the gas mileage. When the alternator is cold, it'll tell it to pump out 14.7 volts, but after it warms up, it'll drop it to 13.8. Then, if the battery needs a kick, it'll push it to around 15-15.3 at times. What screwed me up is it also keeps my battery between 80 and 90% charged to preserve battery life. Grounding anything to the frame will alter it's readings and can severely under charge or even over charge my battery. So I had to learn a different way to ground. I just didn't want you to get too deep then find out that your truck had one. 

And as for the bucket seats, they might not make any specifically for your truck.... but anything can be fabricated. I don't know your personal situation... but throw enough money to the right person, any problem can be fixed lol. But I know how it is. I'm shopping all my own work in my truck because shits expensive! Lol

 

I’m just curious what year make and model is your truck? I know shit gets expensive quick. I’ve been doing more research on the mixing of subs and some had good results, but to most people it was mostly a waste of time and money. I’m just going to swap in the new gear and maybe one day I’ll work up the courage to do a 4th order blow though and I might be able to use my gooseneck too! Here’s what my setup looks like now and I’m redoing the amp rack in black wood grain wrap and it should look good. Might even space the amp out a little bit and put some led’s behind the amps to make it look like they’re floating 

[Dafaseles]

My truck is a 2011 Silverado 4.3. Once I get my shell put on, I'm going to do a 6th order blow through with 4 12's. The box is the whole damn bed lol. I'm getting a shell so at least, if I have to, I can put some things on top of the box. I'm going to mount my amps (5 total) underneath my box. It might prove to be a terrible idea, but I'm trying really hard to not have anything in the cab and have as much as possible hidden. 

You should start a build log for your truck. It's cool watching people do unique builds.