Zori.L83 Posted June 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 Oh I think I understand what your saying. Hook up the Driver and Tweeter in parallel than stick it to the amp. Right? @Dafaseles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dafaseles Posted June 7, 2021 Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 2 hours ago, Zori.L83 said: Oh I think I understand what your saying. Hook up the Driver and Tweeter in parallel than stick it to the amp. Right? @Dafaseles So I started second guessing myself and I think I might be wrong about that. I think it still is an end 4 ohm load. What exactly do you have in what vehicle? The HCP4DK for the mids and highs, but what subs and what amp? What does your electrical look like? And what kind of sound do you prefer? I know you need it louder, but do you prefer a warm sound, or a bright sound? Do you want your ears to bleed? Do you like more smooth, flat response? 2011 Chevy Silverado under construction My build log here. Check it out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur79 Posted June 7, 2021 Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 9 hours ago, Zori.L83 said: The gains were set using a DD-1 and for the crossovers, I have the front channels on High Pass at roughly 1200Hz. Any lower than that, I started to notice the B2 6.5 woofers were bottoming out. Also the front channels are connected to the B2 passive crossovers with the switch at -3db. Now on this 4 channel, all Channels are taken which is why I want to add another 2 channel to power the new mids. If you set the tweeter level to +3db on the passive crossover, you will get more of the highs coming through your tweeters, effectively making them louder... 8 hours ago, Dafaseles said: So, the high pass crossover sound be set way lower. Like 90 hz, 120 at the most. What we need to find for you is a component set that can handle all those watts! So you have front speakers hooked up to channels 1&2 and rear speakers on channel 3&4? Dafaseles is 110% on this one. Until you can get a set of higher power components maybe give this a try: Pull the turn-on lead out of your sub amp so it doesn't turn on and drown out the front stage with bass. Take note of where the gain is set for the front components and then turn the amplifier gain for the channels that run the front components all the way down Set the high pass x-over to somewhere between 90-120 like Dafaseles mentions Disconnect the rear 2 channels so they aren't playing on the 4-channel amp Play a song you know really well (one that you know what should sound like) Now turn your head unit/deck/stereo up to it's highest non-distorting volume level Now very slowly and carefully increase the gain on the front 2 channels (that are driving your B2s) until you start to hear them bottom out and then back the gain off until they stop bottoming out. They should sound a lot better and will be playing as loudly as you can get them without blowing them completely up. You will likely still be overpowering them a bit, but as long as they aren't bottoming and distorting, they should be safe to run like that until you get your higher power set. Also, another completely random thought - if the 6.5s are mounted in the door, you might be fighting what are called standing waves, which is where the sound wave reflects off of a hard surface (like your door skin) and essentially bounces back at the driver which can negatively affect the drivers sound, volume and performance. Using some Fast Rings like these might help: amazon.com/Road-Kill-RKFR6-Speaker-Enhancer/dp/B076MM4DJV The round plug (bottom left in the picture) sticks to the door skin directly behind the speaker and helps diffuse any standing waves while the thin foam ring goes around the speaker once it's installed to help funnel all of the sound/energy through the factory grill locations in your door card. You may have to trim the foam ring or the foam plug. You want to make sure the plug stuck to your outer door skin doesn't get in the way of the window rolling up and down and you want the ring to be just deep enough to make contact with the door card but not fold over and interfere with the driver's surrounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur79 Posted June 7, 2021 Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 4 hours ago, Dafaseles said: So, here's what I've found kind of poking around the internet. https://skyhighcaraudio.com/shca-65c3p-premium-neo-3-way-6-5-component-set-4-ohm-neo-motors-titanium-dome/ If that little speaker will fit in that location, these should be able to handle the power of that amp. Though I've never heard them, and I haven't heard anyone talk about them. Though what SHCA has posted on their different components, loud shouldn't be an issue. https://www.skaraudio.com/products/spx-65c-6-5-inch-component-speaker-system Some people absolutely hate Skar, some people swear by it. These are 200 watt RMS, so these should work fine, just be conservative with the gain and the high pass filter. https://store.soundsolutionsaudio.com/aluma-6-6-5-300-watts-rms-2-ohm-component-kit-speakers-by-massive-audio/ These are kind of on the expensive side, but they would take all that power easy. https://store.soundsolutionsaudio.com/carbon-6-6-5-280-watts-rms-component-kit-speakers-by-massive-audio/ These are massive audio as well, a little cheaper, but still, would handle the power from that amp easy https://store.soundsolutionsaudio.com/zk6-6-5-200-watts-rms-component-kit-speakers-by-massive-audio/ These are only 200 watt RMS, so again, you'd have to be easy with the gain. Or, that money you are willing to spend on another amp, maybe get a DSP instead and go active. Then you can piece together your own component set with your own crossover points. The reason you had to set your high pass so high was because that speaker couldn't handle the wattage. So by getting higher RMS speakers, they can handle the power and you can lower the high pass down to an acceptable range. What I think is happening is because you have the high pass set so high, the majority of the music is only coming through at probably -12db per octave increments, thus making the music not loud enough. For some reason I always forget about Massive Audio. It's been years since I've heard any of their speakers, I would be super interested to hear some/hear some forum members opinions on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur79 Posted June 7, 2021 Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 7 minutes ago, Dafaseles said: So I started second guessing myself and I think I might be wrong about that. I think it still is an end 4 ohm load. What exactly do you have in what vehicle? The HCP4DK for the mids and highs, but what subs and what amp? What does your electrical look like? And what kind of sound do you prefer? I know you need it louder, but do you prefer a warm sound, or a bright sound? Do you want your ears to bleed? Do you like more smooth, flat response? The passive x-over network should still look pretty close to a 4 Ω load to the amplifier. They use inductors along with caps and resistors to split the signal at defined frequency points and slopes. The biggest complaint passive crossovers get is that the crossover essentially "steals" some of the amplifier's wattage (by way of heat) but you shouldn't have any problems with that given how over-powered your amplifier is compared to your components... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dafaseles Posted June 7, 2021 Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 2 hours ago, Zori.L83 said: Oh I think I understand what your saying. Hook up the Driver and Tweeter in parallel than stick it to the amp. Right? @Dafaseles 13 minutes ago, Arthur79 said: The passive x-over network should still look pretty close to a 4 Ω load to the amplifier. They use inductors along with caps and resistors to split the signal at defined frequency points and slopes. The biggest complaint passive crossovers get is that the crossover essentially "steals" some of the amplifier's wattage (by way of heat) but you shouldn't have any problems with that given how over-powered your amplifier is compared to your components... Yes, I was looking into it and I was wrong. Essentially the passive crossover "simplifies" the circuit and only "sees" 1 voice coil. Obviously that's not exactly what's happening, but a very simplified answer lol. So I would do what @Arthur79said with setting your HPF and then increasing the gain. That actually might fix the problem. If not, I'd look for something in the 200 watt range. I've found that under powering mids and highs (for me) yields a better sound. If the speaker recommends a 120 hz crossover on RMS power, if you under power the speaker a little, you can drop that HPF a little more and still be relatively safe from the speaker reaching its mechanical limits. You have to be careful, but it's possible. If you can find a set that's frequency range starts in the mid 90's (hz) or below, I think that should be good. The lower the FS, the better (in my opinion). If you're looking for loud, in the t/s parameters, there higher the sensitivity, the "louder" the speaker. Everything changes once you apply them in a vehicle, but that's the thought process anyway. 2011 Chevy Silverado under construction My build log here. Check it out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zori.L83 Posted June 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 I was thinking of trying that. Dropping the gain and messing with the crossover. Also, there was a company who made custom speaker brackets for my truck and I put some of that pillow like rings which are very thin where one side sticks to the speaker bracket ( I do not know what there called lol) and then mounted the 6.5's on those. The sound im hearing is definitely from the speaker itself. @Arthur79 Here is a full list of the gear im running @Dafaseles Alpine ILX-W650 Headunit with the PAC integration system for GM. B2 REF6.3 2-way for the fronts JBL Coaxials for the rears at low gain Hertz HCP4DK amp to run these Skar Audio (2) DDX-10's wired to 1 ohm DB Drive Euphoria MX2000.1 Mono amp to run these Im not looking to have my ears bleed lol. Im basically looking for what the B2's are doing but a little louder if that makes sense. Clean sound but loud As for power under the hood I have a Mechman Elite 370 Amp Alt with 2 XS Power batteries with all wiring from Knukoncepts. 1/0 AWG OFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zori.L83 Posted June 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 14 hours ago, Arthur79 said: If you set the tweeter level to +3db on the passive crossover, you will get more of the highs coming through your tweeters, effectively making them louder... Dafaseles is 110% on this one. Until you can get a set of higher power components maybe give this a try: Pull the turn-on lead out of your sub amp so it doesn't turn on and drown out the front stage with bass. Take note of where the gain is set for the front components and then turn the amplifier gain for the channels that run the front components all the way down Set the high pass x-over to somewhere between 90-120 like Dafaseles mentions Disconnect the rear 2 channels so they aren't playing on the 4-channel amp Play a song you know really well (one that you know what should sound like) Now turn your head unit/deck/stereo up to it's highest non-distorting volume level Now very slowly and carefully increase the gain on the front 2 channels (that are driving your B2s) until you start to hear them bottom out and then back the gain off until they stop bottoming out. They should sound a lot better and will be playing as loudly as you can get them without blowing them completely up. You will likely still be overpowering them a bit, but as long as they aren't bottoming and distorting, they should be safe to run like that until you get your higher power set. Also, another completely random thought - if the 6.5s are mounted in the door, you might be fighting what are called standing waves, which is where the sound wave reflects off of a hard surface (like your door skin) and essentially bounces back at the driver which can negatively affect the drivers sound, volume and performance. Using some Fast Rings like these might help: amazon.com/Road-Kill-RKFR6-Speaker-Enhancer/dp/B076MM4DJV The round plug (bottom left in the picture) sticks to the door skin directly behind the speaker and helps diffuse any standing waves while the thin foam ring goes around the speaker once it's installed to help funnel all of the sound/energy through the factory grill locations in your door card. You may have to trim the foam ring or the foam plug. You want to make sure the plug stuck to your outer door skin doesn't get in the way of the window rolling up and down and you want the ring to be just deep enough to make contact with the door card but not fold over and interfere with the driver's surrounds. So there is one thing about setting the crossover to a point. I know its not always going to be accurate because the dials for setting the crossover points on the Hertz amp dont really tell you whats what. On my amp it shows 50Hz minimum and 3200Hz Maximum. What would be the best way to see if the crossover is set to 90Hz or at least around that region? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur79 Posted June 7, 2021 Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 If you had access to an SMD CC-1 that would let you get really accurate settings. If you don't have access to one, you can play a test tone and adjust the crossover that way. Don't turn your head unit all the way up while your playing the test tones, just up enough that you can hear it clearly. Let's say you want to set the crossover point at 90Hz. Drop your crossover all the way down, play a 90Hz test tone and adjust the crossover until you start to hear the test tone start to drop in volume and then back it down. Spend as much time as you need/want tweaking it, the crossover POTs on these amplifiers tend to be extremely sensitive. Once you feel like it's dialed in for the crossover point you select, play a tone 10Hz above and below where you set it. If you set it at 90Hz, when you play and 80Hz tone, it should be noticeably quieter, while a 100Hz should play with a similar output level as 90Hz. It's not perfect, but it will get you reasonably close. If you can't get the volume you are looking for with your high pass x-over set at 90Hz, try setting it at 100 or 110Hz but like Dafaseles said, going much over 120Hz and you start loosing too much range common in music and it won't sound very good. Not sure if this has been discussed, but where is your low pass filter set for your subs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zori.L83 Posted June 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 3 hours ago, Arthur79 said: If you had access to an SMD CC-1 that would let you get really accurate settings. If you don't have access to one, you can play a test tone and adjust the crossover that way. Don't turn your head unit all the way up while your playing the test tones, just up enough that you can hear it clearly. Let's say you want to set the crossover point at 90Hz. Drop your crossover all the way down, play a 90Hz test tone and adjust the crossover until you start to hear the test tone start to drop in volume and then back it down. Spend as much time as you need/want tweaking it, the crossover POTs on these amplifiers tend to be extremely sensitive. Once you feel like it's dialed in for the crossover point you select, play a tone 10Hz above and below where you set it. If you set it at 90Hz, when you play and 80Hz tone, it should be noticeably quieter, while a 100Hz should play with a similar output level as 90Hz. It's not perfect, but it will get you reasonably close. If you can't get the volume you are looking for with your high pass x-over set at 90Hz, try setting it at 100 or 110Hz but like Dafaseles said, going much over 120Hz and you start loosing too much range common in music and it won't sound very good. Not sure if this has been discussed, but where is your low pass filter set for your subs? Rough estimate I set it at 80-90Hz. Even on my sub amp it doesnt have accurate dials but it is certainly easier to tune than the 4 channel. In the picture below i made a little red mark to where its at Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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