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DD Redline 612 vs Alpine Type R-W12d4


dubenth

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Hello everybody, a newbie here. Just to setup some context, I had an Alpine Type R SWR-1243d previously, in a box 60L net, tuned to 32hz, slot port type. Amp was around 750w RMS. Absolutely loved how it played.

 

Now I am planning to up my game, however I need an advice. I want to buy 2 12" and will be deciding between the new Alpine Type R-W12d4 and DD Audio RL612. Box will be around 55-60L net volume, per piece. Amp will be the Avatar 2000.1d. What are the differences between these subs and which will go lower and louder? What about the sound quality? Other suggestions are also welcome. Thank you!

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Well, alpine has a reputation for being an SQ brand and Digital Design is known for being more of a brand that has great output, but still maintains a level of SQ. People might refer to them as an SQL brand. That being said, I don't think you'd be disappointed in either sub to be honest. You already know you love the sound from a type R, but if you wanted to try something new, DD is a great, strong brand as well with a great reputation. 

As far as which is louder and which can play lower, that mostly depends on the enclosure you build, or have built. In an install, the enclosure is probably 80% as far as importance of the install. Really only 20% equipment. 

And just saying, double check and make sure your electrical can handle that 2000 watts. If it can't handle it, it's going to perform like crap no matter what you do. 

 

2011 Chevy Silverado under construction

My build log here. Check it out! 

 

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15 hours ago, Dafaseles said:

Well, alpine has a reputation for being an SQ brand and Digital Design is known for being more of a brand that has great output, but still maintains a level of SQ. People might refer to them as an SQL brand. That being said, I don't think you'd be disappointed in either sub to be honest. You already know you love the sound from a type R, but if you wanted to try something new, DD is a great, strong brand as well with a great reputation. 

As far as which is louder and which can play lower, that mostly depends on the enclosure you build, or have built. In an install, the enclosure is probably 80% as far as importance of the install. Really only 20% equipment. 

And just saying, double check and make sure your electrical can handle that 2000 watts. If it can't handle it, it's going to perform like crap no matter what you do. 

 

Thanks for your response! They are very similarly priced where I am located so price is not a factor. Box will be around 60L net, 32hz tune for each driver. 1/0 or 2/0 copper not CCA welding cable, haven't decided which yet. Big 3 and a good battery should be enough to power the system.

 

I am reading that DD redline doesn't like low 30s Hz and that Alpine will perform better. Haven't heard the DD so I hope someone who has can shed some light.

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I would choose DD subs over Alpine all day, I run DD right now and Alpine mids , Alpine makes great mids but have never seen them set records or break windshields like DD. Alpine is not bad but can’t compare to DD. Your also comparing Alpine top of the line Type R to DD lower 600 series.

2022 Ford Maverick on 22’s                                                                                                                                          Skar SK1500.1 on 4 Skar VD-8’s                                                                                                                       Mids Sundown Super tweeters, Skar TX 6.5 components on Skar SKM400.4                                                 LC2 for audio control  , XS Power D680 XS Series Extra Battery 

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As Defaseles mentioned, the box is really critical.  At 60ish L per sub you are in the ballpark for the Red Line 12s, but if you can afford more space, the Red Lines will achieve more output.

 

I'm running a pair of the Red Line 712s in an enclosure that comes in at just over 155 L net (for 2 subs) and the port is tuned at 28Hz.  The Red Lines have no problem playing low (and punchy as hell) so long as they are in a properly built enclosure.  My setup is running off a DD Audio DM2500.1a mono-block amp.

 

If you are planning on running them off a 2k RMS amplifier, I would consider the Red Line 700 series.  DD's subs are "conservatively" rated, but over-driving each sub by 400 watts is probably pushing your luck.  They have the 612E rated at 800w RMS each, but that's still 200w over rated per sub.

 

If your budget allows for it, I would put a pair of the 712's in a proper enclosure up against anything else in their class.

 

I've always heard good things about the Alpine Type R's but have never owned one.  Looking at the specs, it looks like a pair of them on a 2k RMS amp is probably pushing them into the danger zone as well.

 

One more thought - Plenty of OFC wire (big 3, fat fused runs to the back of the vehicle etc) and good batterie(s) are a great way to store and transmit power, but you're going to want a high output alternator once you are talking about 2k RMS power output.  I would suggest at least a 250 amp alternator, bigger if it is an option for your vehicle.

 

I have a 370 amp Mechman on my truck and at idle, the system can hit hard enough that the LED lights inside the enclosure (I have a plexi window into the box) will visibly dim.  Less so rolling down the road at ~1800-2000 RPM.

 

Some of the forum members have had great success converting over to Lithium as a means to get around the need for AS much alternator output (Lithium batteries are able to discharge more current faster than traditional Lead Acid or AGM) but at the end of the day, if you play it loud for long periods of time, the alternator is the part of the system that actually creates the power.

 

Defaseles touched on this in his response I think, it won't make much difference which way you go if you are short on power (current/voltage coming from the electrical system) your voltage will start to drop hard, your amp(s) will go into clip or even protect and your system will sound like $h!t.  And if you drive your subs with a clipped signal for too long, you'll end up smoking them whether they are $50 no-name subs or $800 top shelf models.

 

I hope this helps!

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12 hours ago, Arthur79 said:

As Defaseles mentioned, the box is really critical.  At 60ish L per sub you are in the ballpark for the Red Line 12s, but if you can afford more space, the Red Lines will achieve more output.

 

I'm running a pair of the Red Line 712s in an enclosure that comes in at just over 155 L net (for 2 subs) and the port is tuned at 28Hz.  The Red Lines have no problem playing low (and punchy as hell) so long as they are in a properly built enclosure.  My setup is running off a DD Audio DM2500.1a mono-block amp.

 

If you are planning on running them off a 2k RMS amplifier, I would consider the Red Line 700 series.  DD's subs are "conservatively" rated, but over-driving each sub by 400 watts is probably pushing your luck.  They have the 612E rated at 800w RMS each, but that's still 200w over rated per sub.

 

If your budget allows for it, I would put a pair of the 712's in a proper enclosure up against anything else in their class.

 

I've always heard good things about the Alpine Type R's but have never owned one.  Looking at the specs, it looks like a pair of them on a 2k RMS amp is probably pushing them into the danger zone as well.

 

One more thought - Plenty of OFC wire (big 3, fat fused runs to the back of the vehicle etc) and good batterie(s) are a great way to store and transmit power, but you're going to want a high output alternator once you are talking about 2k RMS power output.  I would suggest at least a 250 amp alternator, bigger if it is an option for your vehicle.

 

I have a 370 amp Mechman on my truck and at idle, the system can hit hard enough that the LED lights inside the enclosure (I have a plexi window into the box) will visibly dim.  Less so rolling down the road at ~1800-2000 RPM.

 

Some of the forum members have had great success converting over to Lithium as a means to get around the need for AS much alternator output (Lithium batteries are able to discharge more current faster than traditional Lead Acid or AGM) but at the end of the day, if you play it loud for long periods of time, the alternator is the part of the system that actually creates the power.

 

Defaseles touched on this in his response I think, it won't make much difference which way you go if you are short on power (current/voltage coming from the electrical system) your voltage will start to drop hard, your amp(s) will go into clip or even protect and your system will sound like $h!t.  And if you drive your subs with a clipped signal for too long, you'll end up smoking them whether they are $50 no-name subs or $800 top shelf models.

 

I hope this helps!

Thanks for your input!

 

I will be buying a new car and will go step by step with everything. Cables, big 3 and a battery will be a start. I'll get a diesel most likely which can help me in terms of alternator as the cars that I am looking at have 120A alts.

 

712s are a out of my budget as they are almost double the price than a 612 where I am located. (Not sure if I'll need a better amp for them as well)

I've chosen this amp so I have plenty of clean power headroom and the awesome price that I can get it for new. 

 

Lithium is very expensive and for my application I don't think it will make sense. Although it would be awesome to have it!

 

I will see if I can squeeze more space for a better box. I could consider a single 715 however I think that 2 612's will be louder? Not sure tho, what's your opinion on this?

 

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5 hours ago, dubenth said:

Thanks for your input!

 

I will be buying a new car and will go step by step with everything. Cables, big 3 and a battery will be a start. I'll get a diesel most likely which can help me in terms of alternator as the cars that I am looking at have 120A alts.

 

712s are a out of my budget as they are almost double the price than a 612 where I am located. (Not sure if I'll need a better amp for them as well)

I've chosen this amp so I have plenty of clean power headroom and the awesome price that I can get it for new. 

 

Lithium is very expensive and for my application I don't think it will make sense. Although it would be awesome to have it!

 

I will see if I can squeeze more space for a better box. I could consider a single 715 however I think that 2 612's will be louder? Not sure tho, what's your opinion on this?

 

 

That's a tough one between the 2 612s or a single 715.  I think it would probably come down to your listening habits.  The single 715 will definitely be able to play lower and have better control at lower frequencies.  The 612s have less cone mass and would likely be more "punchy". 

 

Things probably worth considering...

 

  • A pair of 612s vs a single 715 puts you in the same RMS power rating, with the 715 having a higher rated peak power handling.
  • A pair of 612s have more cone surface area than the single 715, but the 715 has a higher Xmax and Xmech

 

That's a tough call, any chance the shop you are using has any customers with either setup that are willing to demo for you?

 

As for over-driving the subs, so long as you stay entirely out of clipping and occasionally check to see if the subs are starting to heat up I think you should be ok.  Also, the bigger you can make the enclosure, the more impedance rise you will get which translates to safer power levels for the woofers.  I have a 2500w RMS DD amp on my 712s and can play them just into (or under) soft clip all day long and they never even warm up.  Just make sure you tune the amp clean on install day and do your best to keep them out of clipping and you should be in pretty good shape.

 

Can't wait to see a build log once you get started on the system!

 

 

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21 hours ago, Arthur79 said:

 

That's a tough one between the 2 612s or a single 715.  I think it would probably come down to your listening habits.  The single 715 will definitely be able to play lower and have better control at lower frequencies.  The 612s have less cone mass and would likely be more "punchy". 

 

Things probably worth considering...

 

  • A pair of 612s vs a single 715 puts you in the same RMS power rating, with the 715 having a higher rated peak power handling.
  • A pair of 612s have more cone surface area than the single 715, but the 715 has a higher Xmax and Xmech

 

That's a tough call, any chance the shop you are using has any customers with either setup that are willing to demo for you?

 

As for over-driving the subs, so long as you stay entirely out of clipping and occasionally check to see if the subs are starting to heat up I think you should be ok.  Also, the bigger you can make the enclosure, the more impedance rise you will get which translates to safer power levels for the woofers.  I have a 2500w RMS DD amp on my 712s and can play them just into (or under) soft clip all day long and they never even warm up.  Just make sure you tune the amp clean on install day and do your best to keep them out of clipping and you should be in pretty good shape.

 

Can't wait to see a build log once you get started on the system!

 

 

I would love to hear each setup, unfortunately there aren't many people into car audio where I live. As far as I understand the general difference between 2 12s vs 1 15" sub is that 2 12s will be GENERALLY louder on the meter although there are many, many factors involved, as opposed to the 15 which will hit lows better and will "shake the car". My previous car was a sedan and with the seats folded I got massive trunk rattle and a spike between 40-45hz most probably due to the car. When I played decafs and rebassed music which is by the way my favourite type of music along with some chill/deep house, the R Type was struggling a bit which didn't make sense to me as it had optimal, well built box with low tuning.

 

Now I am planning to buy a hatchback which is way better for a system than a sedan in my opinion. Now I am looking for opinions from more experienced people so I can make a better decision although it's hard when you can't really hear the system before you finish it..

 

When you say that the 12s will be "punchier" what do you mean exatly? Thanks again for your help!

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