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Swapping from spl to air movers, which ones to get?


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1 hour ago, Dafaseles said:

I've read that before. I think that was just an old page they had that they didn't delete or something. That page was easy to find when I ordered my subs years ago. They refer to subwoofers and options that aren't available anymore. Before you order, if you have any concerns, email them. They've always gotten back to me quickly. 

Have you thought about maybe 3 18's? It's a little more cone area than 4 15's. Not really much though

I don't have the air space for 3 18's, unfortunately. Right about my limit with two 18's or 4 15's. If this weren't the truck my dad got when he was 18 and started doing car audio in, I would opt for something with much more space and do four 18's. It's been fun for me to spend time with my dad, and fun for him to relive his days of traveling to dBDrag tourneys.

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1 hour ago, BumpedCX5 said:

 

What specific Treo's do you have and what size/tune enclosure are they in? At least then we can compare apples to apples spec wise to other subs. 2 18's may have less cone area than 4 15's but if they have double the xmax of your 15's you may still be ahead. Enclosure wise I'm wondering if it could be optimized more for what you're after. 4 treo 15's (even older ones) should be able to move some air and maybe you're just in need of an enclosure change. 

Four Treo SSX 15.11 subs each with a Skar RP-2000.1D. They're technically in a box that's removable from the cabin, but it is very nearly wall to wall roof to ground so I refer to it as a wall normally. The box was built (I think) 22 years ago (somewhere between 18 and 22, think the latter) and so he doesn't remember much about it, except that it was tuned somewhere between 46-54HZ because it was a half daily half comp build. When we break ground towards this new project, we'll take out the subs and look into it and assess what we have, but with it being ancient equipment, we try and let it sit where it has for over a decade. I just found the spec sheet for the Treo's again and I'm kind of surprised at what I'm looking at.. they're rated for 2500RMS with 28mm XMAX, but they have relatively conservative surrounds (nothing like the Skar ZVX or Sundown X15's). It also recommends that you tune it to 29.4hz, which sounds weird to me because of how "small" the surrounds are. About 10 minutes before I read your comment, my dad and I were talking about doing a different box for the current build to see if it could move some air, but the biggest concerns there are 1) Suuuuuper old subs. The truck sat in a field for 8 years, no clue how they still work flawlessly, let alone with how much I beat on them. 2) Building a box doesn't seem cheap right now, and if we build a box for the subs (when we already have a box for them) and it doesn't perform like we'd hope for, then we would still move onto another build in the truck and would have blown $400~ in mats. Definitely open to any and all advice, I'm still new to the hobby, and he's been out for so long that stuff has changed, and the stuff that hasn't is still a little foggy for him.

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2 hours ago, SlammedRides said:

Four Treo SSX 15.11 subs each with a Skar RP-2000.1D. They're technically in a box that's removable from the cabin, but it is very nearly wall to wall roof to ground so I refer to it as a wall normally. The box was built (I think) 22 years ago (somewhere between 18 and 22, think the latter) and so he doesn't remember much about it, except that it was tuned somewhere between 46-54HZ because it was a half daily half comp build. When we break ground towards this new project, we'll take out the subs and look into it and assess what we have, but with it being ancient equipment, we try and let it sit where it has for over a decade. I just found the spec sheet for the Treo's again and I'm kind of surprised at what I'm looking at.. they're rated for 2500RMS with 28mm XMAX, but they have relatively conservative surrounds (nothing like the Skar ZVX or Sundown X15's). It also recommends that you tune it to 29.4hz, which sounds weird to me because of how "small" the surrounds are. About 10 minutes before I read your comment, my dad and I were talking about doing a different box for the current build to see if it could move some air, but the biggest concerns there are 1) Suuuuuper old subs. The truck sat in a field for 8 years, no clue how they still work flawlessly, let alone with how much I beat on them. 2) Building a box doesn't seem cheap right now, and if we build a box for the subs (when we already have a box for them) and it doesn't perform like we'd hope for, then we would still move onto another build in the truck and would have blown $400~ in mats. Definitely open to any and all advice, I'm still new to the hobby, and he's been out for so long that stuff has changed, and the stuff that hasn't is still a little foggy for him.

 

It's kinda why I was asking. Treo made some seriously badass subs back in the day (and I'm assuming they still do) that could put out some serious sound. 8kw and 4 15's should honestly move some hair. The surrounds might not be huge like on modern subs but xmax is xmax. If the subs survive the power then no reason why you can't keep using them. I have some old subs (gotta be close to 20 years old) that were still beating hard last year. My home theater subs are probably 25 years old with foam surrounds and they still get regular use with no issues. Granted, replacing with new equipment is way more fun than reusing older gear lol. 

 

If it's a ported enclosure you could easily elongate the current port (externally) to lower the tunning frequency and see how that goes. If you work out how many cubes of airspace (or give us enclosure dimensions) it's pretty straight forward to figure out how much extra port you need to add. The enclosure itself may be too small for the Treo's and choking them off at low frequencies. 20 years ago some SPL oriented enclosures were made a little small to let people run more power through the subs without blowing them. A little experimenting with what you have may tell you if it's worth it to invest in building a new enclosure. If you know the enclosure specs of the new subs you plan to get and they're close to the Treos you could build it and if the Treos work in it that's great...if they don't put the planned new subs in and enjoy. Myself I would modify the current enclosure and drop the tune way lower than what it is. If it doesn't fit the vehicle you could probably run it on the floor of your shop/garage and get a good idea of how the subs like the lower tune. Cost next to nothing to try and could save you some $$$ in the long run or let you put it to other upgrades.

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Crossfire C7s 

2000 Suburban 6 runs of 2/0

12 timpano audio mids,6 timpana audio tweets and 1 timpano compression horn per door 

8 banks of blue Maxwells + 260ah of Yin Long LTOs 

2 370 Amp Autotech Alts 

mids amps 2  Crescendo Skyway 3ks 

Tweet amp Crossfire 2000.4

sub amp: 4 Crossfire XT 8ks

Subs: 8 18 in Crossfires in a 4th order


Best Scores at events…

161.6@38hz DBdrag  sealed on the dash… 162.54 outlaw…161.14 Meca headrest 

 

 

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3 hours ago, BumpedCX5 said:

 

It's kinda why I was asking. Treo made some seriously badass subs back in the day (and I'm assuming they still do) that could put out some serious sound. 8kw and 4 15's should honestly move some hair. The surrounds might not be huge like on modern subs but xmax is xmax. If the subs survive the power then no reason why you can't keep using them. I have some old subs (gotta be close to 20 years old) that were still beating hard last year. My home theater subs are probably 25 years old with foam surrounds and they still get regular use with no issues. Granted, replacing with new equipment is way more fun than reusing older gear lol. 

 

If it's a ported enclosure you could easily elongate the current port (externally) to lower the tunning frequency and see how that goes. If you work out how many cubes of airspace (or give us enclosure dimensions) it's pretty straight forward to figure out how much extra port you need to add. The enclosure itself may be too small for the Treo's and choking them off at low frequencies. 20 years ago some SPL oriented enclosures were made a little small to let people run more power through the subs without blowing them. A little experimenting with what you have may tell you if it's worth it to invest in building a new enclosure. If you know the enclosure specs of the new subs you plan to get and they're close to the Treos you could build it and if the Treos work in it that's great...if they don't put the planned new subs in and enjoy. Myself I would modify the current enclosure and drop the tune way lower than what it is. If it doesn't fit the vehicle you could probably run it on the floor of your shop/garage and get a good idea of how the subs like the lower tune. Cost next to nothing to try and could save you some $$$ in the long run or let you put it to other upgrades.

A lot of good information here. Thanks for taking the time to type it up.

The port being tuned where it is I'm pretty sure is why it lacks so heavily on lower frequencies. Not a lot of movement at 50hz. I have been able to get a couple decent videos in the past when I find a good song with a wall around x freq. I'd rather buy once and hurt the wallet than twice and hurt 401k, so I won't be cheaping out, but I plan on tinkering with the current box to see what we can do. In the end, if we can't come up with a good solution for the TREO's, then I'll move forward with new stuff. Like you said, new stuff is fun. Do I need it? No. But do I even need the current 15's? Of course not lol. I would just like to still get a good idea of what I want (like, settle on either four 15's or two 18's, figure out the brand and type of enclosure) even if we tinker with the current setup and get a good middle ground. That way, whenever I DO make the move, I already have the plan made up. 

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1 minute ago, SlammedRides said:

 

The port being tuned where it is I'm pretty sure is why it lacks so heavily on lower frequencies. Not a lot of movement at 50hz.

 

Excursion will be lowest at/near port tuning and it will begin to skyrocket below it. Just something to keep in mind should you start testing it below tuning 👍

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2 minutes ago, BumpedCX5 said:

 

Excursion will be lowest at/near port tuning and it will begin to skyrocket below it. Just something to keep in mind should you start testing it below tuning 👍

That makes sense, but isn't something I would have answered with if asked. So, then, when people tune high excursion subs (sundown, skar zvx, fi, Orion, etc) to, lets say, 28hz, are they playing sub 28hz frequencies when doing crazy demos on YouTube? Or are they doing what the port is tuned to? (I don't live in an area with a lot of bass heads, haven't gotten to demo in anything more than 2 skar evl 12s @ 28hz before). 

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1 minute ago, SlammedRides said:

That makes sense, but isn't something I would have answered with if asked. So, then, when people tune high excursion subs (sundown, skar zvx, fi, Orion, etc) to, lets say, 28hz, are they playing sub 28hz frequencies when doing crazy demos on YouTube? Or are they doing what the port is tuned to? (I don't live in an area with a lot of bass heads, haven't gotten to demo in anything more than 2 skar evl 12s @ 28hz before). 

I'm in the same boat car audio has all but died in my area lol. You'll get output below tuning but the excursion starts to go way up. My enclosure is tuned to around 29Hz but I'll get lots of output below that. A subsonic filter will be set at 15Hz which will let my excursion max out at about 17Hz. Years ago when I had a car at shows I had music on hand to showcase the systems strengths so I would assume that people would still be going that route. I try to tune to the music most listened to and for me I have stuff with a fair amount of bass in the mid 20's and 30's. The lower tune usually gives you a flatter curve that lends itself better to music rather than a one note wonder SPL tune like what you have now which typically has a massive peak to get the highest score. Great for numbers not so much for everyday listening.

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2 hours ago, SlammedRides said:

That makes sense, but isn't something I would have answered with if asked. So, then, when people tune high excursion subs (sundown, skar zvx, fi, Orion, etc) to, lets say, 28hz, are they playing sub 28hz frequencies when doing crazy demos on YouTube? Or are they doing what the port is tuned to? (I don't live in an area with a lot of bass heads, haven't gotten to demo in anything more than 2 skar evl 12s @ 28hz before). 

 

Bear in mind that many of those demo vehicles are using bandpass enclosures which can load the drivers not at a small range of frequencies like ported does but to a custom range that you can set (usually a full octave) in the case of 6th order bandpass enclosures, so they can be mighty loud with almost anything they play.

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