New to D.I.Y. Lithium banks

[Dafaseles]

My buddy has a 2019 GMC Terrain. He wants to be able to run around 6000 watts. Because it's a 1.5l turbo 4 cylinder, I'm sure upgraded alternators aren't going to be very powerful. 

I told him I'd help him learn to build a lithium bank. Can anyone help? 

I was thinking 80 ah of headway cells? More? Should I go Ying- long? 

I have many more questions as well. I'm pretty green but am willing and eager to learn. 

[SnowDrifter]

Yinglong (lto) is probably going to be the longest lived / most user friendly. High charge/discharge capacity and cycle life. And they aren't temperature sensitive. This will come at the cost of energy density though

You will, however, want to include a balancing circuit in there. Make sure all the cells are the same voltage and won't drift over time.

Edit: I believe this chemistry can also be found out of some Honda hybrids / PHEVs. Pull the pack for parts. Should be able to get ~$300/kwh

Edit 2: oh and you'll want to convert the alternator to external regulation. Li-X cells rely, universally on a CC-CV charge profile over the bulk-float charge that lead/acid batteries use. So a cold-hot voltage shift would reallllly not be all too usable

[Dafaseles]

2 hours ago, SnowDrifter said:

Yinglong (lto) is probably going to be the longest lived / most user friendly. High charge/discharge capacity and cycle life. And they aren't temperature sensitive. This will come at the cost of energy density though

You will, however, want to include a balancing circuit in there. Make sure all the cells are the same voltage and won't drift over time.

Edit: I believe this chemistry can also be found out of some Honda hybrids / PHEVs. Pull the pack for parts. Should be able to get ~$300/kwh

Edit 2: oh and you'll want to convert the alternator to external regulation. Li-X cells rely, universally on a CC-CV charge profile over the bulk-float charge that lead/acid batteries use. So a cold-hot voltage shift would reallllly not be all too usable

This truck has a REALLY stupid voltage regulation system. The manual actually states to take the truck in to even get the battery replaced, to take it into the dealer. Some stupid crap about having to reset the ECU after disconnecting the negative. So I don't even know if there's an option for an aftermarket alternator. Dumb new technology. He's going to email Tony at mechman today and see if they have any type of solution. 

Because of that reason, I don't know if external regulation is an option. I don't know how that all works. Like I said, unfortunately, I'm pretty green when it comes to all this. I just want to learn as much as possible. 

That's why I was thinking LifePo4 like headway cells. But safety is always number one. I'm not married to the headway cells in anyway though. So whatever you guys say is best. 

There really isn't much information on the terrain online. So I can't find specifics on the charging system. 

I was planning on getting a balancer as well. I've seen youtube videos on how to wire up 6 rows of 2. 

 

[stingray72]

My mom's old car was like that and I believe it was as simple as turning on all the major electrical stuff for so many minutes and it would reset things.  Oh and 60 ah should be enough for 6k.

[killerc998]

80ah of headways with a mechman 300+ alt would drop to about 12/12.5 on 2 saz3500s strapped and wired to 1.6.  It was a test to see what it would do. I have 64AH on a Korean 3k and about 500 rms to mids and highs, running a 270alt and 145 alt. Voltage stays up. With the stock alt I would do 80ah. Is it needed prolly not, but It wouldn't hurt. Do you know what his stock charging voltage sits around?

[Dafaseles]

26 minutes ago, killerc998 said:

80ah of headways with a mechman 300+ alt would drop to about 12/12.5 on 2 saz3500s strapped and wired to 1.6.  It was a test to see what it would do. I have 64AH on a Korean 3k and about 500 rms to mids and highs, running a 270alt and 145 alt. Voltage stays up. With the stock alt I would do 80ah. Is it needed prolly not, but It wouldn't hurt. Do you know what his stock charging voltage sits around?

On the dashboard HUD display, it says 13.8 most of the time. I think the stock alternator is 100 amp. 

Hopefully there is an option for a bigger alternator for him. He's contacting mechman today. If nothing, he'll contact brand x as well. Just to see. I was thinking about it, but there is no way we're getting 2 alternators in that truck unless we completely go nuts under the hood, and for this build, I'm not willing to go that nuts lol. If he wants to run 60,000 watts on 8 18's at some point, fine, let's go nuts, but not 6k on 2 15's lol. 

Being completely truthful, he's not even sold on 6kish yet. His words where basically, depending on his tax return, would be how much he ran and what subs. So, I figured if I can learn to build, and build a bank that can run 6kish watts, then he'll never have a problem even if he runs less. And it'll be there if he decides to upgrade. 

 

 

 

[Dafaseles]

56 minutes ago, stingray72 said:

My mom's old car was like that and I believe it was as simple as turning on all the major electrical stuff for so many minutes and it would reset things.  Oh and 60 ah should be enough for 6k.

I'll have to look and see if there's a YouTube video on how to do it. There's not much on these cars anywhere though. I don't think too many enthusiasts of anything but these boring ass cars lol

[stingray72]

 

[Dafaseles]

17 minutes ago, stingray72 said:

 

Thank you. I'll have to watch that when I get home from work

[audiofanaticz]

I would shy away from headway,  cells seem to vary drastically in voltage and have other issues it seems. Granted I have no experience with them and just what I hear from people who used them and switched out for other brands.
Yinglong would probably be the best bet for someone with no experience or research in them but rumor had it a while ago about a bunch of fake cells being produced so if thats true then I would buy the XS Power branded Yinglongs which will cost a little bit more but at least you know you're getting real cells and not boot leg ones, or maybe go with Titans.
The last thing you want is fake cells that go bad and have a huge disaster or fire.
A balancer is a must, but at the same time I question that as well because these balancers are only capable of something like 5 amps. So when your drawing 1thousands of amps from the cells and then dumping hundreds of amps back into them from the alts that 5 amp balancer isn't doing crap, period. It will only really be effective when the vehicle is off. Monitoring the battery voltage including each paralleled row of cells voltage is needed.
In all honesty though if he is clueless on lithium, and you're the one helping and also clueless on it as well then I don't feel that lithium is the proper choice at all, especially if you're goal is a DIY lithium battery. There have been so many fly by night hack battery brands that came and gone after these so called builders had batteries that started a persons car on fire, so much wrong and misleading information, etc. 
I've done a bit of reading and messing around with it before using it in my vehicle and I surely don't know everything but what I do know is I would never recommend it to someone that knows nothing about it for safety concerns alone, but I would urge you to educate and test them first hand yourself so you understand a bit better before building something you have no idea about and putting it in a persons car. The thing is batteries will fail and may even explode (even agm batteries) but if your dead set on lithium then maybe buying a premade battery from a trusted company like XS Power or JY is the better solution instead of piecing your own together and possibly making a ticking time bomb for your vehicle (or your friends vehicle in this case).
I'm still sitting on another 95ah of cmax to double my bank for almost 2 years now that I haven't even thought about touching yet.