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New to D.I.Y. Lithium banks


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3 hours ago, audiofanaticz said:

I would shy away from headway,  cells seem to vary drastically in voltage and have other issues it seems. Granted I have no experience with them and just what I hear from people who used them and switched out for other brands.
Yinglong would probably be the best bet for someone with no experience or research in them but rumor had it a while ago about a bunch of fake cells being produced so if thats true then I would buy the XS Power branded Yinglongs which will cost a little bit more but at least you know you're getting real cells and not boot leg ones, or maybe go with Titans.
The last thing you want is fake cells that go bad and have a huge disaster or fire.
A balancer is a must, but at the same time I question that as well because these balancers are only capable of something like 5 amps. So when your drawing 1thousands of amps from the cells and then dumping hundreds of amps back into them from the alts that 5 amp balancer isn't doing crap, period. It will only really be effective when the vehicle is off. Monitoring the battery voltage including each paralleled row of cells voltage is needed.
In all honesty though if he is clueless on lithium, and you're the one helping and also clueless on it as well then I don't feel that lithium is the proper choice at all, especially if you're goal is a DIY lithium battery. There have been so many fly by night hack battery brands that came and gone after these so called builders had batteries that started a persons car on fire, so much wrong and misleading information, etc. 
I've done a bit of reading and messing around with it before using it in my vehicle and I surely don't know everything but what I do know is I would never recommend it to someone that knows nothing about it for safety concerns alone, but I would urge you to educate and test them first hand yourself so you understand a bit better before building something you have no idea about and putting it in a persons car. The thing is batteries will fail and may even explode (even agm batteries) but if your dead set on lithium then maybe buying a premade battery from a trusted company like XS Power or JY is the better solution instead of piecing your own together and possibly making a ticking time bomb for your vehicle (or your friends vehicle in this case).
I'm still sitting on another 95ah of cmax to double my bank for almost 2 years now that I haven't even thought about touching yet.
 

This battery bank is pretty far off. I agree, if I don't feel I've learned enough, I won't do it. I'd like to learn though. Problem is there isn't anyone where I live to learn off in person. So youtube and here it is. I'm not the type of person who watches one video and says ok let's do it. I couldn't tell you how many I've watched so far. On top of that, posting the question here has helped a lot as well.

This is totally a learning experience. If I go with those XS ying long cells, I'm not really saving my friend any money (which isn't the goal anyway). I've looked online and can't find any other type of LTO cells, or even ying long. So it's looking like XS it is. It seems like the majority is steering me away from the headway cells. Which is fine. We'll have to start looking into externally regulated alternator options. 

2011 Chevy Silverado under construction

My build log here. Check it out! 

 

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18 hours ago, Dafaseles said:

This battery bank is pretty far off. I agree, if I don't feel I've learned enough, I won't do it. I'd like to learn though. Problem is there isn't anyone where I live to learn off in person. So youtube and here it is. I'm not the type of person who watches one video and says ok let's do it. I couldn't tell you how many I've watched so far. On top of that, posting the question here has helped a lot as well.

This is totally a learning experience. If I go with those XS ying long cells, I'm not really saving my friend any money (which isn't the goal anyway). I've looked online and can't find any other type of LTO cells, or even ying long. So it's looking like XS it is. It seems like the majority is steering me away from the headway cells. Which is fine. We'll have to start looking into externally regulated alternator options. 

I agree just watching videos and going at it isn't going to teach you everything, but I'm saying buy actual cells, by the tools needed to test the cells, by the charger needed to charge the cells (no a regular battery charger, nor a lithium battery charger wont work for this), learn how to bottom balance cells, how to properly group cells in series and then learn how to group those series cells in parallel, and then run these small scale banks outside of a vehicle for a while (as in months) as you learn about them and continuing to read/watch anything you find that relates to your use case. For example use your newly built banks to power a garage stereo or a atv or something small scale that you can stress test to hell and back and even try to make it fail this way you know the safety precautions to take when you build something on a larger scale, and what to implement and how to implement it.

 

My point has absolutely nothing to do with you or your friend saving money by going the DIY route because frankly I could care less how your money is spent, my view is from a safety perspective. That is why I only mentioned 2 batteries that seem "safer" than other prebuilt offerings from companies that have multiple models. This doesn't mean that diy batteries are not safe because they can be built better than a lot of these manufactures mass produced batteries are, but most people are not willing to go the extra mile and buy the tools needed to do things correct so at that point something like a Titan or a JY maybe the better solution compared to a DIY built bank where the person is just tossing things together and crossing their fingers.
Everyone thinks they can just bolt a bunch of batteries together and toss it in a vehicle, and sadly that is the wrong approach and how costly mistakes happen that result in losing a battery, vehicle, or even a house because you park your vehicle in an attached garage. 
I'm not trying to be harsh or a dick about this stuff, but seriously this crap has happened time and time again yet no one learns from it or takes the time to actually educate and test stuff and instead they insist on jumping right in feet first.

Really this is kind of similar to those that make a post asking the famous question that is "can I run my amp at 0.5 ohms" and everyones reply to it is if you have to ask than the answer is no. Once again its people that see something done and think they can do it too since they got the same amp though they are running a stock alt and a stock battery with no electrical upgrades done except some 1/0 cca wire that is actually only 4 gauge with a super thick casing from some cheap company.
 

17 hours ago, stingray72 said:

He asked how to reset the electrical system in his post without going to the dealer.

My bad, I must of missed that part. 

This just proves my point even farther though about people wanting to not only use lithium let alone build their own lithium banks yet they don't know how to disconnect a battery cable to reset their vehicles electronics and to me that is a huge red flag.

 

 

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9 hours ago, audiofanaticz said:

I agree just watching videos and going at it isn't going to teach you everything, but I'm saying buy actual cells, by the tools needed to test the cells, by the charger needed to charge the cells (no a regular battery charger, nor a lithium battery charger wont work for this), learn how to bottom balance cells, how to properly group cells in series and then learn how to group those series cells in parallel, and then run these small scale banks outside of a vehicle for a while (as in months) as you learn about them and continuing to read/watch anything you find that relates to your use case. For example use your newly built banks to power a garage stereo or a atv or something small scale that you can stress test to hell and back and even try to make it fail this way you know the safety precautions to take when you build something on a larger scale, and what to implement and how to implement it.

 

My point has absolutely nothing to do with you or your friend saving money by going the DIY route because frankly I could care less how your money is spent, my view is from a safety perspective. That is why I only mentioned 2 batteries that seem "safer" than other prebuilt offerings from companies that have multiple models. This doesn't mean that diy batteries are not safe because they can be built better than a lot of these manufactures mass produced batteries are, but most people are not willing to go the extra mile and buy the tools needed to do things correct so at that point something like a Titan or a JY maybe the better solution compared to a DIY built bank where the person is just tossing things together and crossing their fingers.
Everyone thinks they can just bolt a bunch of batteries together and toss it in a vehicle, and sadly that is the wrong approach and how costly mistakes happen that result in losing a battery, vehicle, or even a house because you park your vehicle in an attached garage. 
I'm not trying to be harsh or a dick about this stuff, but seriously this crap has happened time and time again yet no one learns from it or takes the time to actually educate and test stuff and instead they insist on jumping right in feet first.

Really this is kind of similar to those that make a post asking the famous question that is "can I run my amp at 0.5 ohms" and everyones reply to it is if you have to ask than the answer is no. Once again its people that see something done and think they can do it too since they got the same amp though they are running a stock alt and a stock battery with no electrical upgrades done except some 1/0 cca wire that is actually only 4 gauge with a super thick casing from some cheap company.
 

My bad, I must of missed that part. 

This just proves my point even farther though about people wanting to not only use lithium let alone build their own lithium banks yet they don't know how to disconnect a battery cable to reset their vehicles electronics and to me that is a huge red flag.

Ehh, you're not being harsh, I get it. It's dangerous. I'm not trying to downplay that in any way. There's a lot of O.G's here (you included obviously) that know way more than me. I read and take too heart everything that is said. I have thick skin, be as brash as you want. As long as I'm learning, you can call me a complete dumbass. But in my defense, I'm not trying to just slap it together and push it on his car. I want to learn everything I possibly can. Gotta ask questions. Gotta get my hands dirty. The only reason I mentioned the price thing was to hopefully explain that I'm not just trying to be cheap and save money. That's not the goal. I just would like to learn. No matter what the cost. 

I'm going to do that. Buy some cells and play around with them and get my hands on them. I can build a garage setup to push them on. I've got spare stuff on my garage. That's a good idea. 

All the safety stuff, and doing it right, that's why I asked the question. I want to know what to look for. I want to know how to setup the cells right. I want to know and understand the vocabulary when talking about this kind of stuff. I want to know the pros and cons of the different chemistries. 

Right now we're looking into his vehicles charging system. Talking to Tony at mechman, there's good reason why they don't make an alternator upgrade for his specific engine. I want to know cold start voltage, voltage after it warms up, and how it reacts to a heavy load. Idol amperage and amperage at a cruising RPM. All this before we decide on which battery chemistry would be best to use. 

As far as that video, I haven't watched it yet, so I don't know what it entails. He wanted to move his amp in his current setup. I told him disconnect the battery because it's dangerous and not smart to mess with it with the battery connected. He didn't have it fused well enough for me either, so we fixed that. Well, now his key fobs don't work. Called the dealer and they said (my friends words) if you disconnect the battery, the whole ECU basically needs to be rebooted. I've never dealt with a car that you can't even change the battery without causing problems with the vehicles internals. I'm used to, well, dumber vehicles I guess you could say. 

Because of not having an alternator solution, he's decided on 2 Skar 15's on 2 SKV21500.1D'S. For time sake, we are most likely going to go with a prebuilt solution like you suggested. I still want to learn how to build my own though. For later in life and my own knowledge. I like learning. 

So I'll buy the cells, the balancer, hardware, and charger (am i missing anything?). And I'll go from there in the garage to learn. 

I can find everything, except what charger would you recommend? I know a normal charger isn't going to work. I have a Limitless 5 amp charger, but I'm sure 5 amps isn't going to work while playing music in the garage. 

2011 Chevy Silverado under construction

My build log here. Check it out! 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

don't buy a prebuilt lithium battery , build your own ! figure out what voltage you are gonna run and go from there . there is plenty of cells out there to choose from ( Headway 38120HP , Planno lLTO , Ying Long ,  Shengquan LTO,  Honda EH5 ,  CMAX ,etc..) go to Facebook groups  to research ,learn , ask questions ,  find out where to get legit cells  to buy and if you feel you still question whether you  can or can not build your own bank ., there are quite a few legit people to build you a premade bank out of legit cells that you will be more than  happy .  by the way , you will then find out how cheaply those limitless and D4Sound premade banks are made ...

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