bbeljefe
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Posts posted by bbeljefe
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Some decks, you can add a click or two of sublevel after setting the gain.
Get the gain set at zero sub level first, then with the same volume, see if you can add any sub level to it.
This is not correct for an Alpine head unit. The subwoofer output on them has no boost circuitry and level 15 is flat. Set the system with the sub level at 15.
As for volume levels with that head unit, the internal amp clips at ~24 and the preamp outs clip at ~29 if I remember correctly. Obviously, you can verify that yourself. And as for the DD-1 distortion light firing when you move the gain, that's not a problem. It will fire slightly any time you attach or remove the probes, when you bump a setting or when the source signal changes abruptly. You're only worried about a solid red light, not the occasional flashing light.
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If that's an 8 in the picture, the port is only ~9" tall. And if it's 2.5" wide and 10" long with a net volume of 1 cube, it's tuned to ~63Hz, which is atrocious tuning for a music setup. Not to mention, it's far too much port area for the Alpine sub.
As for box volume, yes... a larger box will yield better low end response but depending on the sub, it could also cause a nasty dip above tuning. Also, you won't hear any difference in sound quality between 2Ω & 8Ω wiring. If you were in an anechoic chamber with everything else ideal you might realize some audible improvements but in a vehicle cabin you won't.
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Dealers can sell below MAP, they just can't advertise below MAP. If the idea was to restrict the sale price, it would be MSP, not MAP.
And, of course, dealers can sell above MAP... even on the internet.
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Yes. The NS-1 draws a lot of current and since your alternator isn't up to snuff you need the support of a good battery bank.
And preamp voltage is measured in RMS.
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Between those two subs the enclosure is the largest determining factor in sound quality. In fact, the enclosure is the largest factor regardless of the sub. You can buy the best sub ever made, put it in the wrong box and you'll get crappy sound.
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I didn't answer the question with respect to your electrical, I answered with respect to the gain setting. You'll need better electrical for that amplifier but that has nothing to do with your gain setting.
The reason I say that is because even if you run with the gain turned all the way down, you could still be driving the amp to it's max output depending on the voltage level of your preamp.
Frankly, you didn't have enough battery for the 2500. The alternator is okay (not ideal) but you'll need a lot more battery to support the NS-1. I would run a minimum of 300AH of battery for 3500 watts at 2Ω and iirc, those red tops are only 75AH batteries.
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You can but you can't just pick a place to run the gain as it's not a volume knob. Depending on your preamp voltage, ¼ way up may be too much gain or, it may be too little. And that has nothing whatever to do with your electrical or the impedance of the subs. It only has a relationship to the preamp voltage.
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If you were to run a sub off the same channels as mids you would have to passively cross it over and that wouldn't result in great sounding bass. I would stick with the front stage on the front channels and one E8 on the rear channels in a ported enclosure tuned to ~30Hz.
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Yes, it is strappable but it's not much of an amp.
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So set one amp to Master other amp to slave? Run RCAs from line out to line in. Tune Master amp only and as long as the 2nd amp is in slave mode its setting have no effect? Sorry im new to strapping also, so im trying to learn. thanks for the help, much appreciated.
When you strap amps there is a strap in/out on each one and you use one RCA cable between them. Speaker connections are between the two and there is a jumper between negative speaker outs. Once you have that little bit of interconnectivity, you treat them just like any other single amp and use the controls on the master for settings.
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So set one amp to Master other amp to slave? Run RCAs from line out to line in. Tune Master amp only and as long as the 2nd amp is in slave mode its setting have no effect? Sorry im new to strapping also, so im trying to learn. thanks for the help, much appreciated.
When you strap amps there is a strap in/out on each one and you use one RCA cable between them. Speaker connections are between the two and there is a jumper between negative speaker outs. Once you have that little bit of interconnectivity, you treat them just like any other single amp and use the controls on the master for settings.
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It isn't because it's a Kenwood. Head units are like home stereo receivers with built in amps.The volume control is basically a gain knob for the internal amp, so once you reach about half way you've turned the gain as far up as it can go without clipping. The preamp, on the other hand, doesn't really boost the signal so it isn't subject to the distortion problems that final amp gain is. That's why you can turn the volume much further up on the preamp outs than you can on the internal amplifier outputs.
And I could be wrong but, I'm pretty certain Steve was talking preamp outs, not speaker outs. I know that the Pioneer head units I've experienced all distort at ~60 and other head units with max volume of 35 distort ~29-30.
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That would be the correct method if you were using an external amp for all your speakers but since you're using the head unit's amp, you need to set the gain at the highest undistorted volume for that amplifier.
It's been mentioned several times in this thread but it bears repeating... head unit amplifiers distort a lot sooner than preamp outputs (RCAs). So while your preamp outs may not distort until volume 34 of 35, my bet is that your head unit amp distorts somewhere around 22-24 of 35. But... you need to verify that setting by using track 2 and probing the head unit's amplifier. Then, once you've found that, you can set the subwoofer amp's gain at the same volume level and that's how you set up a balanced system.
A note about crossovers.... if your head unit has high pass crossover and it is set to 60 or above, you will not detect a 40Hz signal on the speaker wires or the front/rear preamp outputs. And the opposite is true for the subwoofer output, in that you should never be able to detect a 1kHz signal on that output. So if the head unit has internal crossovers, make sure they're turned off when setting with the DD-1.
Lastly, and again as has been said, you may not get a signal detected light on the DD-1. That's okay. I've had systems that didn't light the signal light until the distortion light lit and they sounded okay once set up. So don't worry so much about seeing the signal detected light... worry about seeing the distortion light. And if you get the volume turned all the way up while probing the head unit's speaker outs and the distortion light doesn't fire, you've got something wrong. Normally, when that happens you can simply probe another speaker wire to get it. You may even need to probe chassis ground and a negative speaker wire, which is common for 4 channel amps.
Okay, this will be last, I promise.... in case no one else has seen it, Tony D'Amore mentioned somewhere (sorry, can't remember where) that it's been found that distortion testing each stage of the setup isn't necessary. Ergo, you don't need to distortion test the head unit, then the eq/processor (if you have one) then the amp, etc. All you need to check in most installs is the final amplifiers, whether they be sub and head unit or sub and external 4 channel. Doesn't matter, because if there is distortion anywhere in the signal path it will always show up at the speaker output of the amplifier. That said, if you have distortion that you can't eliminate with amplifier gain, that's when you need to start testing back up the chain.
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Well since I can't even get a signal to begin with, I'm suspecting a bad ground. How would you properly ground a probe to your amp? n00b question but hey this is my first time doing something like this.
If you're trying to measure at the amplifier's speaker outputs and you get no signal, probe the negative speaker output. If you're trying to test line level outs from the head unit, make sure your RCA is making a ground connection to the meter & remove any isolation transformers (noise blockers). If you're using an LOC, you aren't likely to ever see a signal light flash but that doesn't mean the distortion light won't fire.
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Don't use the dd-1 with speakers hooked up. Although you can do it that way you shouldn't.
So I gotta rip my HU out and disconnect the speakers first?
You don't have to but if you don't, you get what you got. And when you're running on head unit power, you should never (in my experience) be at 80% volume. Every head unit amp I've tested distorts at ~60-65%.
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It would be nice if these meters came with a bit better quality leads. Something like the Oldaker leads which have very sharp points for penetrating cable jackets as well as threads on which you can screw alligator clips and other accessories.
Also, I've had to resolder the ground inside the RCA connector on my leads because there was absolutely no strain relief at the connector. Maybe I got a bad set of leads but I haven't seen any others with a strain relief collar inside the connector so I'm pretty sure there are none.
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So running a few Kinetics and a few XS Power batteries would be bad?
Not at all.
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Mixing battery brands will become a problem when electrons learn to read the labels on the outside of the battery.
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It isn't a theory. It's a formula based on the parameters of the driver and the design goal of accurate music reproduction.
As for what I would do, I don't have enough information about the install or the OP's goals to say for sure but one thing I would certainly do is make the port(s) as large as possible.
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Did I say they're the answer to every box building scenario?
As most people understand, box building is a series of trade offs.... especially in the limited space we have in car audio. So if the recommended port is too large, you can reduce the size.
How much can you reduce the size? Ask that question in a civil manner and someone will probably answer you. ;-)
That all im saying, people keep recommending those calculators, but give no additional explanation to help the OP. In reality, the "recommended" port area is almost never feasible or even necessarily the loudest or best sounding for a given scenario.
So in the end, how is it even helpful?
I didn't elaborate because I didn't think to because I'm doing other things as well. But asking usually gets a more detailed answer.
And I trust that you've built boxes with the recommended port area and then built the same box with less port area in order to test these calculators and have some evidence for your claim? The reason I ask is that I've had a lot of success using the correct port area, so I'm wondering what sort of scenario you're talking about.
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Did I say they're the answer to every box building scenario?
As most people understand, box building is a series of trade offs.... especially in the limited space we have in car audio. So if the recommended port is too large, you can reduce the size.
How much can you reduce the size? Ask that question in a civil manner and someone will probably answer you. ;-)
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Port area is determined by xmax and tuning, not volume.
Here's a calculator:
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Check that the subwoofer control on your head unit is turned to max.
Also, are you able to get a distortion light but just no signal light? I've had that happen on some LOCs.
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thats like 100% coverage though. isn't it a little much?
Depends on the goal and the system. For a really clean front stage in a setup with a lot of power, you need the doors to be completely dead. For a small upgrade with a small sub... 25% works. Not great, mind you... but it works.
problem with dd1
in SMD Distortion Detector (DD-1) Topics
Posted
Your sub isn't clipping at level 0 because the signal is not present. Or at least, not to any appreciable degree.
As for the clip light burning solid red at ¼ & 2/3 gain but not at full gain, I would have to be there to see what's happening in order to diagnose it. But... that definitely doesn't sound right.
I have a 148bt in stock and if I get time today I'll put the DD-1 on it and verify when it clips. But in the meantime, are you using the DD-1 CD to do this setting or are you using something else?