CJ18
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Posts posted by CJ18
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thank you cj18, that's what I was trying to explain with my last post but you said it much better.
in short what im seeing is that with out the proper equipment (which gets expensive just for a good scope) you cant get an accurate results from the clamping that most people do. it can be a more accurate test with the right tools at hand and more work but for the money the amm1 is a steal.
all the scopes ive seen run around $300-400 for a nice one. don't forget the dmm and getting a test bench together to put a reactive load on the amp to get a true rms reading at a given load.
You are looking at about $5000 worth of testing equipment sitting on my make shift bench. I have the tools to do the job correctly, most people dont.
The AMM1 now provides an affordable solution that.
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so different amps/setups will have different % of difference between the dyno and clamp method right? or at least I would think it wouldn't always be a difference of 34.5%.
just asking that so people don't see the vid and say o well if its only a difference of 34.5% then I can clamp and subtract the % difference to get the true rms. I could see that happening.
great video once again though. glad you posted this meade, I didn't see the other thread so works for me.
remember everyone, haters will keep on hating. some people are most likely seeing these vids about how clamping doesn't work because of its inaccurate results from the lack of actually understanding what they are doing imo are just upset because what they thought their setup was putting out isn't what the true rms output is. people don't like being proven wrong or told that the excepted way to do something is inaccurate and a thing of the past.
I say let the haters hate while the rest of us thrive off of their hate to achieve better. I know when someone tells me I can do something I do it just to prove them wrong.
D'amore had a vid showing why it's off. Something about phase differences. I haven't watched in a while but here:
Phase Angle comes into play when you are using a subwoofer as you load, not a resistive load.
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^^ please explain how its misleading if you are so smart.
they come in here and post videos with facts supported by science and math while everyone else comes in here saying well clamping is how everyone does it so it must be true. that's like saying everything you read online is true or the well my brothers friends sisters boyfriend said this and so it must be true.
sorry but facts are facts while all that other stuff has no supporting science or math behind it.
I'm not bashing the dyno or the AMM-1. Or even taking up for clamping for that matter, but the way the test was done using the dyno for the clamp portion isn't the best way to illustrate the difference.
Cody retested the amp. He videoed the clamped portion this time. This is a screen shot of the 900w clamp result. Pay particular attention to the wave on the scope-meter
The dyno and AMM-1 stop reading at 1% THD. Does that look like 1% to you? Yeah... me neither.
This is much closer. This is a screen shot of the same vid, but while the wave is still clean.
That's 570w and MUCH closer to what the dyno and AMM-1 are seeing.
Clamping is flawed because of the phase angle on reactive loads. But he isn't using a reactive load here, is he?
The Dyno and Clamps are supposed to agree on this test.
What happens here though is to find the point that clipping occurs, you have to be using a scope that can keep up with the sine wave. Most people who clamp do so using just a DMM with no way to see the point that clipping occurs.
Even using the scope and being able to see the sine wave, it is very tough to get an exact reading of the highest point just before clipping occurs to know what your true useable power is.
Based on what I was able to see with my eye when going back over the video, I can find 570w of clean power. But the Dyno and AMM1 see 651w of clean power. 81w might not be alot if we are talking in the range of 10000w, but when we are working in the 500-700w range, that represents alot of power.
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The point of this test wasnt to bash clamping, it was really to show the accuracy of the AMM1.
Here is a breakdown of the test.
Amp Dyno is being used to provide a 4Ω resistive load.
On paper, the clamps, Dyno, and AMM1 should all agree on the same number since the load is resistive and the power factor is 100%.
Here is where the tricky part comes in. If you are "clamping" using just a general DMM, there is no way for you to see where clipping occurs. Now if you use a nice Oscope, you can now see the sine wave. BUT you are having to rely on your eyes to tell you where clipping occurs to find out what the numbers are at this point to find your usable power.
Once you take this into your vehicle and start using a subwoofer to create your load, now you run into phase angle which clamps cannot see.
Overall the AMM1 does everything for you and make it MUCH MUCH easier. It is an all in 1 tool.
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I am very very surprised that is did that much power with only a single run of 1/0 and 3 D1600s. I really expected the voltage to tank, but that is credit to XS Power for making bad ass batteries.
What surprised me is I know this amp will certify about 8600w at 1 ohm and 14.4v with plenty of power behind it. The higher voltage definitely made a huge difference.
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The wildcard here are the dynamic tests. Less stress on the battery bank and that amp is a monster at .8.
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Does the amp dyno accurretly test the Brazilian amps as well? I have been hearing debates between whether it does or doesn't. I am currently looking at a Taramps HD8000 & few believe it's capable of producing claimed power by the cost. I have very little knowledge of all the differences between full bridged (Korean) & half bridged (Brazilian). If possible, could someone do a amp dyno test to either prove or disprove the dyno & amps (HD8K) ability or inability?
The Amp Dyno doesn't care one way or the other. It will measure the true power coming into it regardless where it is coming from. You could connect it to a wall socket if you wanted to dyno your house.
Tell me more, I will do it!
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I want the 1005, but the new power supply/charger is very intriguing.
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He's got an empty astro van. Send him on a sonic shopping spree
That's an excellent idea. Could get pricey though because I know Steve would want to go very big lol.
Advertising tax write off. Give him the Sonic Black Card!!!!
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Thanks. Worked on that until 2am last night. Still have more work to do and more products to add. I can only stare at it for so long at a time though, gotta take a break.
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Subwoofers
http://www.droppinhzcaraudio.com/subwoofers-subwoofers-c-129_29.html
Amplifiers
http://www.droppinhzcaraudio.com/monoblock-dc-audio-c-117_121_59.html
http://www.droppinhzcaraudio.com/amplifiers-multi-channel-c-117_122.html
Recones
http://www.droppinhzcaraudio.com/recones-dc-audio-recones-c-131_32.html
Packages
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Sounds good. I am here to help with any questions you may have in the mean time.
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With 2 5ks strapped at 2 ohm(each amp sees 1 ohm). This would yield 5000w per amp at 1 ohm giving you a total of 10000w.
If you need any help when you are ready to get the subs or an additional amp, please send me a PM and I will be more than happy to help however I can.
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If someone will send me one to test, it will get tested.
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If you guys dont want to wait for the next batch in February, we have 5 on order(2 are going in the company test kits), but 3 will be available to ship as soon as this first batch ships out to us.
http://www.droppinhzcaraudio.com/smd-audio-multimeter-amm-p-269.html
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I am 1 of those people I have 6 amps in this.
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For everyone that has pre ordered any DC Amplifiers, we have been informed that the shipment has reached port and is now just waiting to clear customs. Barring any delays, they should hopefully be shipping out to you in the next 7-10 business days.
Anyone who did not get in on the pre order but would like to order an amplifier or any other DC Audio product, click HERE to visit our website or you can send myself or corona_jeff a pm here on SMD and we would be more than happy to help.
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Reserve capacity wise based on my experience with the d1400s and assuming the d1600s are similar, 3-4 d1400/1600 would be equal to 1 d7500.
D1400/1600- $260 each x 4
D7500- $560 each
Then you also have to consider having to have a 12v side to run your vehicle and 4 channel amps along with a dedicated 12v alternator and then have a separate charging system with 1-3 more alternators for the 14/16v side.
Or you run all 12v and have everything charging 1 bank and running the vehicle and amps.
Personally the way I see it is
12v= daily driver and maybe mild competing.
14v/16v= hardcore competitor looking for every last watt of power and every last .1db.
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For me the reserve cap of the 1400s just sucked when it came to demoing.
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Just to give you an use on power from the 5k. It dynoed right around 4kw at 11.6v and 1 ohm. Got 5500w+ at 14v and 1 ohm. Wire em down and let em work.
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I would stick with 12v for daily. I just swapped back to 12v from 14v. With the 12v batteries you get more reserve capacity and you can use all of your alternators to charge the one bank instead of having to run 2 charging systems.
If you were competing and looking for every last watt that you could squeeze out of amps, then 16v may be worth it, but of you are looking for a reliable daily driver, just stick with 12v.
With dual 350s and 2 5ks, I would run 3-4 d7500s. Yes I know it is overkill, but you want to keep your voltage as close to 14v as possible.
Clamping Method vs SMD AD-1 Amp Dyno vs. SMD AMM-1 Audio Multimeter
in D'Amore Engineering - High Quality Car Audio Installation Tools & Accessories
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The video is staying up. I will make sure to really hurt the clampers feelings when I test the AMM1 vs Clamping using a Subwoofer.
Point of this.
AMM1 very simple.
Clamping- To find the exact point, you have to video it and then go back to watch that video to try and find the point just before clipping. Pain in the ass.