TaylorFade
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Posts posted by TaylorFade
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Well who wants my AQ20 to dyno?
Gimme!!!
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I know, I know... this is a "clamp". And an SPL clamp at that, but just so you guys know what it's capable of, I put it head to head with some heavy hitters a while back.
All of this was rising to right at 1 ohm. The "13v" testing was on (2) batts. The 15.5v result is on (2) banks of SuperCaps.
AQ2200
-13v - 2,538w @ 11.4v
-15.5v - 3,365w @ 13v
SounDigital 5k
I shit you not we saw 8k out of this thing on the first burp. Then I was like, "Oh, it's got a clip light." Lol.
We only tested 13v.
-7,139w rising to 1.95 & 11.5v clipped. No, I am not kidding.
-4,324w rising to 1.95 clean. Zero clip light.
DD M3a
-13v - 3,657w @ 11.2v
-15.5v - 4,088w @ 13v
RD D5
-13v - 3,898w @ 11.1v
-15.5v - 5,355w @ 13v
B2 Audio Zero5
-13v- 4,052 @ 11.3v
-15.5v - 5,355w @ 13v-
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Just throwing this out there...
You know the (-) lead goes to ground, yeah?
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From what I saw in the vid the used what most people do for clamping. a in if you google search you weep find more people doing it that way then not.
You're not catching the point trying to be made. The results are different because they're different measurements.
600w @ 1% THD and 900w clipped. The clamp is showing the clipped power after the other two stopped their measurements. That's why they're different. Not because of the inherent inaccuracy of clamping on subs.
But I will agree that most people just clamp their shit where ever. But in this case, the clamp is entirely accurate.
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Velleman HPS140I 99$
Craftsmen clamp meter 72$
Fluke 113 true rms meter 116$
Sorry just under 300$ and you can clamp your amps power for efficiency as well as many other tasks you can do with these three items vs the AMM1.
even if its true.. 3 tools vs 1 tool.. i will take the one tool tan can do it all
It can't clamp DC current for efficiency. Just sayin. But yeah... less is more.
Are we talking 5 gallon bucket or some other size? I'd hate to build this thing and get the wrong reading cause I used the wrong bucket.
How bout the concrete?
The concrete is for heat dissipation, I assume. Although, I've never heard of it before. Old coils can be used for resistance. They're fixed if they're not part of a motor. You just need a way to dissipate the heat because trust me, they get hot in a f'n hurry. Distilled water works. Or veggie oil.
You can cut holes in the top of a Tupperware, put old coils in those holes, fill the Tupperware with oil or whatever and then put the lid on it where they're submursed in the fluid. You'll have to solder leads onto the coils, but there you have it. A bank of fixed resistance. A messy as shit, low power, pain in the ass bank of fixed resistance.
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Ask and ye shall receive. Stole these from Tony on FB.
THIS is what I'm talking about.
This is a comparision of "traditional" clamping on the left and right and the AMM-1 in the center ON A REACTIVE LOAD (subs).
This is 34v and 6.2a. Traditionally we would do the math and come up with 211w rising to 5.5ohms. You can see the AMM-1 will tell you that too (if you want to know).
NOW.... here is where the AMM-1 shines. You don't need fixed resistance or a dual input trillion dollar scope. The AMM-1 is calculating it all for you!
Bingo. Clamping pwned.
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Man...this thread...
Let's sum it up, AMM-1 is not the only way you can get reasonably accurate power results. Using a scope with true rms clamps and meters will get you there. That being said, the AMM-1 takes alot of the work and math out of it for those who could not do it otherwise. It's a tool, like any other tools, there is always another way. If you use a jig saw to make your sub cut outs why buy a router and circle jig? Because it is easier to get good results. But that doesn't mean the guy who uses the jig saw is suddenly doing it wrong. The same logic can be applied to this situation.
Clamping with the right tools and knowhow will give you accurate results. Im sure this is why Taylor and that sinterman dude as well as myself are frustrated after reading through here and watching the vid, since it is suggesting that clamping will never be accurate which is really not the case. I think the AMM-1 is an awesome tool but it's just kinda shitty to start misleading the general audio community for a marketing campaign...intentional or not, it's happening
The reason it's misleading is that it's not utilizing the reason clamping is flawed- reactive loads (like subs). Unless you believe that very nice scope-meter is off by almost 20v. You actually don't even *need* the clamp meter in this clamp because it's on fixed resistance.
The other thing is that this isn't the best way to show how the AMM-1 is better and easier than traditonal clamping. Take a look at my test rig...
That's a lot of f'n shit to watch. The AMM-1 "watches" it all for you and spits out the number you're after with all of that crap. For "clamping" and doing it the most accurate way that you can, the AMM-1 is a no brainer.
For hardcore amp testing... it can be done cheaper than the AD-1 with very accurate and consistent results. But that's another thread entirely.
My whole point of chiming in on this vid is that the AMM-1 basically sells itself. You don't *need* to have a BS demonstration like this to mislead people. Do the test on subs with clamping vs. the AMM-1. That's the point. It's a great way to show how the AMM-1 is spot on with the AD-1 (awesome), but the clamp portion is flawed and misleading.
All I'm suggesting is to redo the video. If you want to discredit clamping, at least do it correctly.
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I know this video wasn't made with the intent of purposely inflating the clamp results, but that's exactly what it's doing.
It's really not complicated. Everyone on here likes math and science and homework assignments? Ok.
We know the power and the resistance for each result. Solve for voltage.
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but he also mentioned that if there is anyone that uses tools that can do what he did in his second test it would be hardly anyone. most people don't have the tools to do such an accurate test to get more accurate results. that being said. 99% of people are not getting a true rms reading because of not having the correct tools from what he was saying.
besides even at a 570w result in that test its still not accurate. still proves that as of right now one of the most accurate ways is the amp dyno or amm1 and you helped prove that.
Did I argue against the accuracy of the AD-1 or AMM-1? Nope.
*I* happen to be one of those people with the proper tools, so yeah... I take offense to the way clamping is getting shit on in this vid. If the vid was just about how awesome the AMM-1 is, I'd have just said, "Awesome. Can't wait to get mine." But the focus of the video is how far off the clamp is, when in reality... it's not.
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^^ please explain how its misleading if you are so smart.
they come in here and post videos with facts supported by science and math while everyone else comes in here saying well clamping is how everyone does it so it must be true. that's like saying everything you read online is true or the well my brothers friends sisters boyfriend said this and so it must be true.
sorry but facts are facts while all that other stuff has no supporting science or math behind it.
I'm not bashing the dyno or the AMM-1. Or even taking up for clamping for that matter, but the way the test was done using the dyno for the clamp portion isn't the best way to illustrate the difference.
Cody retested the amp. He videoed the clamped portion this time. This is a screen shot of the 900w clamp result. Pay particular attention to the wave on the scope-meter
The dyno and AMM-1 stop reading at 1% THD. Does that look like 1% to you? Yeah... me neither.
This is much closer. This is a screen shot of the same vid, but while the wave is still clean.
That's 570w and MUCH closer to what the dyno and AMM-1 are seeing.
Clamping is flawed because of the phase angle on reactive loads. But he isn't using a reactive load here, is he?
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Please take this viedo down. It's extremely misleading.
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You, Sir... are a scholar and a gentleman.
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Yes n8 ecotech
And Tyler fade, just looking for outside help.
Oh... like, troubleshooting help? I thought you wanted someone to go knock on their door or something.
Nvm. Carry on. Good luck.
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Lmao. This *isn't* bashing them?
Whom do you reckon is going to help outside of Mechman?
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I thought the xmax was 30mm?
Do you really need Sd for the model? Approximate it. Should be in the neighborhood of 153sq in.
Displacement... .25 should be close enough. Do you really need it down to the hundreth? Lol.
sd i don't need right now but it'll be important when i start designing my t-line. and i just thought because of the huge surrounds and stuff it might be a little different then most other subs.
and for the displacement i wasn't sure. i tried this once calculator where i gave it the motor dimensions and stuff and it calculated like .45
so i wasn't sure what to trust.It's a custom tooled basket so as NOT to give up any Sd due to the comically large surround. The sub is actually closer to a 16"
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I thought the xmax was 30mm?
Do you really need Sd for the model? Approximate it. Should be in the neighborhood of 153sq in.
Displacement... .25 should be close enough. Do you really need it down to the hundreth? Lol.
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I think some of you and your buddies grossly overestimate how much power these subs are seeing on a daily basis. Lol.
But I'll agree with Jacob on this one (obviously). You'd definitely get them into trouble mechanically before you thermal it on clean power. And mechanical limits are more easily recognizeable. But clipping is a bitch. I've gotten one stinky on 2k clipped before it reached mechanical limits.
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what's benefit of it on high power like that?
What do you mean?
Edit: if you mean what are the benefits of caps vs batts.... here's clamp result on a D5. The 13v test is on batts. The 15v on caps and caps only.
RD D5
-13v - 3,898w @ 11.1v
-15.5v - 5,355w @ 13v
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I thought caps were pretty much pointless after 1-2kwrms.
Yeah.... no.
I know this isn't going to embed correctly, but here's my Zero on OEM electrica lwith (2) banks of caps (stock alt and OEM batt) at 1 ohm beating the crap out of a 2,500rms sub.
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I'm trying to stay in the 0-1000 modified class. Already have 1 zero.5. Was debating switching to CT 2500's or getting another .5.
Oh... now that changes things. That's a no brainer.
Get another Zero.
... And caps for chrissakes.
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Probably ~ 20% more power across the board.
The Zero is a beast, but unless you're in USACi and chasing tenths, I can't really say I'd pay the difference. The Zero.1 is the same price as the .5 and much better suited for daily duty. You kinda have to run the balls off of the .5 whereas the .1 is more of a 1 ohm amp and for "street" voltages.
Now that I think about it... I have actually clamped the Zero.5 once on a batt. Stock CRX alt, one d3400 underhood. 1 ohm rising to 3.2ohms. 2,300w @ 11.5v. Yay.
so i wasn't sure what to trust.
1500 Watt Amp Goes Up in Smoke!
in Williston Audio Labs / OldSchool Stereo - Classic to Current Car Audio and Amplifier Testing Lab!
Posted · Edited by TaylorFade
Did my phone have shit on the screen or did you blur the logo?
Edit: Did you get a dynamic run on it first?