Aiming Mids/highs In Sail Panels Or A-pillar Pods....

[ptcary]

What is the difference between aiming mids/tweets in pods straight across at eachother vs aiming them at the center of the car or directly at the listeners?

It appears in Steve's Tahoe and the Escalade with the 8 18"s that the pods are aimed at eachother, but maybe because there are a lot of door speakers, too?

I am getting started on fabbing some custom sail panels for my front doors for a Vifa TG9 3" mid and a Dayton tweeter, and have read that the off axis response is very good, so I am wondering if I should aim them toward the center of the car or straight across at eachother??

And what happens if the mid is aimed straight across and the tweeter is aimed at the listener. (so not on the same plane as eachother), would that be a mistake?

Edited April 9, 2008 by ptcary

[Guest MegaloManiac]

Some tweeters sound better off-axis and some sound better on-axis. iirc the rf tweeters are made out of aluminum(or was it titanium) so to tame them from being harsh you can listen to them off-axis. I personally wouldnt ever use an metal tweeter, because my ears are far too sensitive on upper frequencies. Really you should test them in a variety of positions and see what sounds best for you.

Which dayton tweeter did you buy?

I know for that TG9 you want them On-axis as much as possible, and also use polyfil for there enclosure.(that tg9 is a 3.5" driver so be careful if you measured around 3")

Also it looks like you will be doing a 4way setup. I dont think you have enough room at all for the tg9 to be in your sails. You should consider moving them to the dash and attach them to the a-pillar and build out some. This will also bring your sound stage more on the dash and will make imaging much easier

Edited April 9, 2008 by MegaloManiac

[ptcary]

Some tweeters sound better off-axis and some sound better on-axis. iirc the rf tweeters are made out of aluminum(or was it titanium) so to tame them from being harsh you can listen to them off-axis. I personally wouldnt ever use an metal tweeter, because my ears are far too sensitive on upper frequencies. Really you should test them in a variety of positions and see what sounds best for you.

Which dayton tweeter did you buy?

I know for that TG9 you want them On-axis as much as possible, and also use polyfil for there enclosure.(that tg9 is a 3.5" driver so be careful if you measured around 3")

Also it looks like you will be doing a 4way setup. I dont think you have enough room at all for the tg9 to be in your sails. You should consider moving them to the dash and attach them to the a-pillar and build out some. This will also bring your sound stage more on the dash and will make imaging much easier

I've got the TG9 in hand, so measuring is not a problem, I guess I got the 3" as the cutout diameter, not overall. There is enough room in my sail panels for the TG9 and a tweeter, I will get rid of the stock plastic sail panel, and will have an extra 1.5" to 2" in depth and surface area in that location. The Dayton is the 3/4" soft dome. I just need to figure out how much to angle them and if I can do it with all MDF vs having to fiberglass it, hence my noob post in the fiberglassing section.

For some reason I am under the impression, that stacking 3/4" MDF 2 layers, coating it, then painting it, would be easier than fiberglassing, and would be very strong, too. Guess I've got a lot of research to do. I may end up building the pods for fiberglassing, then let a friend of mine with experience glass them for me. Thanks for all your advice, though.

3way, kicker SSMB6 midbass in doors, TG9 and tweeter in custom sail panels, hopefully.

Edited April 9, 2008 by ptcary

[Guest MegaloManiac]

you are having a sub too right...4way....

the tg9 needs about a liter of space your pods will be pretty big for being on a sail panel imo. What kind of vehicle is this?

What you should do is make a baffle for the tg9(out of mdf) then aim the baffle anyway you want and hot glue dowl rods to it to keep its position on sail (make sure the tg9 can clear it). then grip the piece in cloth, then glass away

[ptcary]

you are having a sub too right...4way....

the tg9 needs about a liter of space your pods will be pretty big for being on a sail panel imo. What kind of vehicle is this?

What you should do is make a baffle for the tg9(out of mdf) then aim the baffle anyway you want and hot glue dowl rods to it to keep its position on sail (make sure the tg9 can clear it). then grip the piece in cloth, then glass away

OHHHHH the sub! right right right. ok 4 way! I did not realize that such a small speaker needs some airspace, too. Ok now I'm gonna have to hit my friend up for some fiberglassing. I can at least build the frame and base out of wood per your instructions and pics from various installs to guide me, then he can supervise the actual glassing, or maybe do it for me!

Again, I have to say that I this site has inspired me to start to try new things. It's great, but I will have a lot of questions as I go along. I told Steve in a post here that it's a good thing I just finished my box for 4 12"s right when I discovered this site, cause I might have had to order another 4 subs and ditch the back seats for a wall .

Thanks again,

Cary.

Edited April 9, 2008 by ptcary

[Guest MegaloManiac]

ok i read some more on the tg9, it can get a little bit "hot" being on-axis, running them about 30degrees off-axis should have better results.

what kind of vehicle do you have? Do you have picture of your dash(where it shows apilalrs and dash)

[ptcary]

ok i read some more on the tg9, it can get a little bit "hot" being on-axis, running them about 30degrees off-axis should have better results.

what kind of vehicle do you have? Do you have picture of your dash(where it shows apilalrs and dash)

2003 PT Cruiser. Sorry, no pics of the sail panel location.

I read about the extended high end on the TG9s and that they can sometime be run without a tweeter, so I thought that meant that off axis response would be ok.

My problem is when you talked about them not fitting, I did not know that a small midrange speaker running from 350hz and up would require any airspace at all, so I had accounted for the depth and surface area of the sail panel location and the TG9, added an inch to both measurements and thought I would be good to go. It would work fine if I could run them with no airspace, just mounted into the hole/cutout in the MDF.

Oh well, back to the drawing board, I guess.

**Megalo, I have read many of your posts and need for you to know that this is not a competition car, so I am willing to compromise SQ, I am replacing a set of really bright on the high frequency Hifonics Crunch 2-ways with this new set up and also replacing my current center channel. My goal was to get better midbass, and that led to going 3-way up front with Kicker SSMB6 midbasses in the doors and 4 12" subs in the hatch, and decided to go better mids/tweets as well. I mainly need the front to be able to keep up with 4 12" subs, and have a 115x4 rms Hifonics amp to run my front stage and rear fill. I know this maybe an SQ related space on SMD, and pretty much feel that you are an expert on setting these up for the best SQ, just wanted you to know what my actual goal was with these.

I hate to keep going back to the Escalade pic, but that pillar pod can not have that much airspace in it for that RF 5 1/4, can it? My guess is that the doors do all the imaging and the pillar pod is just helping to raise the staging???

Edited April 10, 2008 by ptcary

[Guest MegaloManiac]

even if you cross them at 350hz you need a minimum of .6liters that the tg9 can use/see with polyfil, so when counting for any displacement you end up around 1liter of real space you need. plus those mids arent shallow at all...

in a pt cruiser there is no way you can do what you want(sail install) and it sounding good at all it would be way to tiny; unless you build out a lot, but i worry it would be way too obtrusive.

since you dont want to put it on the dash maybe put tweeters in sails and mids in kicks....

Edited April 10, 2008 by MegaloManiac

[ptcary]

even if you cross them at 350hz you need a minimum of .6liters that the tg9 can use/see with polyfil, so when counting for any displacement you end up around 1liter of real space you need. plus those mids arent shallow at all...

in a pt cruiser there is no way you can do what you want(sail install) and it sounding good at all it would be way to tiny; unless you build out a lot, but i worry it would be way too obtrusive.

since you dont want to put it on the dash maybe put tweeters in sails and mids in kicks....

Ok, I had planned to build a little further back along the door panel because I have custom mirrors that would not be view obstructed, and maybe about 3 inches out away from the door frame, as I would have not used that factory plastic sail that is there.

I guess I will just put them in the factory dash locations, (only have to trim about 1/8" to fit them in there under the dashtop), and already have hifonics tweeters in the sail panels, so I can put the new daytons there.

Thanks again!