Triticum Agricolam Posted January 6, 2016 Report Posted January 6, 2016 Ya the peaking is what i'm trying to stay away from. I like flat response subs but with a slight more favor to the low end. I picked up a Yamaha 10 (SW315), and as an example, it hits down to 20 hz! Plus it does the whole range pretty flat up to the high end and sounds great. I know its in the design but how do they pull that out of a 250 watt 10? Honestly is shakes my house and sounds like a 500+ watt 12 or 15. It over powers my 1000w 8 inch Velodyne by far. .... Ok, I'm going to tackle this with two posts. First off lets talk about the box for your Boston sub going in your vehicle. With that sub you should get pretty flat and even frequency response. If you look at the graphs I posted, both the sealed and ported box roll off on the low end. Your cabin gain will boost that low end output up so what you are left with SHOULD be fairly flat, like what is shown in Joe X's graph. I say "SHOULD be fairly flat" because cabin gain isn't always predictable and even, but it can be roughly approximated, and that's what Joe X's graphs show. As far as the subs in your house go, it takes a surprisingly small amount of power to put out decent bass. You would be amazed how loud just 10 real watts can be. Your Yamaha 10 sub has more cone area, and I presume is in quite a bit bigger enclosure than your 8" Velodyne, so it should be a good bit more efficient. Even just being 3 db more efficient is equivalent to doubling the watts. Also your Yamaha is a ported box, if your Velodyne is sealed there is going to be a big difference in low end efficiency just because one sub is ported and the other isn't. Its very likely your Yamaha sub is at least 6 db more efficient and thus it should get louder despite only having 1/4 the power. "Nothing prevents people from knowing the truth more than the belief they already know it.""Making bass is easy, making music is the hard part."Builds:
Triticum Agricolam Posted January 6, 2016 Report Posted January 6, 2016 ... Ya I know tight a boomy aren't related to sub size etc, but wouldn't the 10's or even 8's sealed and in a slightly smaller than optimal box for tight bass up top and the 15 ported for all the low end down to 20 be ideal? I guess in that wasn't the case, wouldn't everyone just get a good 15 in a good box and have it all? I know what you are saying, and it sounds good in theory, but in practice it doesn't work out that well. You are making a couple false assumptions. The first is that smaller sealed boxes sound "tighter" than larger ones. Actually the opposite is true. Smaller sealed boxes have higher QTC, which makes them sound more boomy and loose. The larger you make a sealed box, the lower the QTC and the tighter the sound. The second false assumption you are making is that a 10" or 8" will sound better for mid bass than a 15" would. Just what "mid-bass" is depends on who you talk to, but for the sake of this discussion, in car audio we will say it goes up to 120 hz at which point you can easily crossover to your mid range drivers. There are many 15" subs that will play to much higher than 120 Hz just fine. In pro audio applications they use 18" drivers to play all the way up to 500 hz sometimes. Most drivers (be they woofers, mids, tweets, etc) can usually play about 3-4 octaves well. The whole range of human hearing is about 10 octaves, so all you really need is a three-way system to play the entire range of hearing. So that's a sub, mids, and tweets. Granted they have to be the right collection of subs, mids, and tweets and have to be integrated together properly to get good results, and there can be advantages to more complex system, but a three-way system will get the job done just fine and there are big advantages to keeping things as simple as possible. Also, an important thing to remember about ported boxes is while they differ in output around their tuning frequency compared to a sealed box, once you get much above tuning ported boxes have exactly the same output as a sealed box does. This is why you can have a ported box tuned to 35 hz and it can play up 200 Hz or more just fine. "Nothing prevents people from knowing the truth more than the belief they already know it.""Making bass is easy, making music is the hard part."Builds:
Chris Braun Posted January 7, 2016 Author Report Posted January 7, 2016 Ya I have a bit more research on cabin gain to look up. Yes the graph does look good to me and i'm probably going to go with the 1.5 cubed box @ 32hz instead, although if my trunk didnt have weird humps on either side, I'd def go with yours. It'll just fit the foot and a half or so slot in my trunk better in my grocery getter. Yes I also agree, the 8 can't compete with the 10 now, especially with such a well designed box and the tech that comes with it. Ported is usually my goto type of box as I just like the output and that kind of bass. It reminds me of an old Hexibase video where he puts a 6 inch sub in a specifically designed box with only 100 watts, and guys were thinking it was 2 10's or whatever. Amazing what the right box can do and sorta why I'm here, because I haven't figured out these box programs yet, or how to design such badass enclosures like you haha.
Chris Braun Posted January 7, 2016 Author Report Posted January 7, 2016 Ya I have a bit more research on cabin gain to look up. Yes the graph does look good to me and i'm probably going to go with the 1.5 cubed box @ 32hz instead, although if my trunk didnt have weird humps on either side, I'd def go with yours. It'll just fit the foot and a half or so slot in my trunk better in my grocery getter. Yes I also agree, the 8 can't compete with the 10 now, especially with such a well designed box and the tech that comes with it. Ported is usually my goto type of box as I just like the output and that kind of bass. It reminds me of an old Hexibase video where he puts a 6 inch sub in a specifically designed box with only 100 watts, and guys were thinking it was 2 10's or whatever. Amazing what the right box can do and sorta why I'm here, because I haven't figured out these box programs yet, or how to design such badass enclosures like you haha.
Chris Braun Posted January 7, 2016 Author Report Posted January 7, 2016 Ya I have a bit more research on cabin gain to look up. Yes the graph does look good to me and i'm probably going to go with the 1.5 cubed box @ 32hz instead, although if my trunk didnt have weird humps on either side, I'd def go with yours. It'll just fit the foot and a half or so slot in my trunk better in my grocery getter. Yes I also agree, the 8 can't compete with the 10 now, especially with such a well designed box and the tech that comes with it. Ported is usually my goto type of box as I just like the output and that kind of bass. It reminds me of an old Hexibase video where he puts a 6 inch sub in a specifically designed box with only 100 watts, and guys were thinking it was 2 10's or whatever. Amazing what the right box can do and sorta why I'm here, because I haven't figured out these box programs yet, or how to design such badass enclosures like you haha.
Chris Braun Posted January 7, 2016 Author Report Posted January 7, 2016 Ya I have a bit more research on cabin gain to look up. Yes the graph does look good to me and i'm probably going to go with the 1.5 cubed box @ 32hz instead, although if my trunk didnt have weird humps on either side, I'd def go with yours. It'll just fit the foot and a half or so slot in my trunk better in my grocery getter. Yes I also agree, the 8 can't compete with the 10 now, especially with such a well designed box and the tech that comes with it. Ported is usually my goto type of box as I just like the output and that kind of bass. It reminds me of an old Hexibase video where he puts a 6 inch sub in a specifically designed box with only 100 watts, and guys were thinking it was 2 10's or whatever. Amazing what the right box can do and sorta why I'm here, because I haven't figured out these box programs yet, or how to design such badass enclosures like you haha. Also yes I know I'm doing a bit of assuming and any sub size or application can't be compared to any other. I guessed also a 3 way setup should take care of the spectrum, it's the drivers that need to work together properly. That's why a lot of car audio systems fail, way too much bass, or no mids, harsh tweets, yet everyone thinks they're a pro installer. I'm always learning as I'm sure you are, and just wanted to say thanks for the hook up and keep up the good work.
Chris Braun Posted January 7, 2016 Author Report Posted January 7, 2016 Man, I was wondering why those weren't going through haha. The last post has more in it.
Triticum Agricolam Posted January 7, 2016 Report Posted January 7, 2016 Man, I was wondering why those weren't going through haha. The last post has more in it. No worries, it happens. I'm glad I could help ya out. I certainly don't know everything though but hopefully I can at least point you in the right direction. "Nothing prevents people from knowing the truth more than the belief they already know it.""Making bass is easy, making music is the hard part."Builds:
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