2017 F150 w/Sony Build - Can't Decide, 2x5 Channel, Audison/Audiocontrol ??

[RawLobst3r]

I started a thread over on DIY but figured it would be good to get cross audience so I can get as much feedback as possible. 

 

I have been researching to build out my 2017 F150 Limited w/Sony Factory system and have brain stormed a few options that I would like to get some feedback on.

 

Interface
PAC AmpPro - Optical out to DSP or AMP w/DSP

 

Amp(s)

 

Option 1 :
Mids/Highs/Rear    Audison F8.9
Subs (2xB2 Rage 8s)    Audison SR5.1

This is probably the more sensible/simple solution and I have read just about every thread on here referencing the Audison amp and know I could make it work quite well. Channels 1 & 2 for tweeters, 3+4, 5+6 for mid bass, 7 & 8 for rear fill. Monoblock obviously for the pair of 8” subs. All that said I still am considering option 2, I really like the audiocontrol gear and feel like it might be more stout than the Audison.

 

Option 2 :
DSP    Audison Bit Nove or DM810
Highs & Rears + 1 Sub (1xB2 Rage   Audiocontrol LC-5/1300
Bridged for L/R Mids + 1 Sub (1xB2 Rage   Audiocontrol LC-5/1300

 

Here is something a little unorthodox, or at least I don’t think I’ve seen it done much (With 5 channel amps anyways). I think this is how I’d connect them up, unless I maybe did 1 5 channel amp per side ? I still want to have the 8 channels to stagger front stage power, and I do want to run rears. Otherwise I’d go mono and the 6 channel flavors of the amps, and I don’t want to run more than 2 amps. What I am not sure if is running the subs like this viable, one woofer to each amps sub section ? I would think it is, just assigning the outputs appropriately in the DSP to each 5-channels sub section, would I split the output with a Y to both amps, or just use 2 independent channels summed? I wanted to get some feedback before I shell out and buy everything this week.

 

Any feedback from the community is appreciated. I really want to get this project underway and I’m going through paralysis by analysis (don’t get me started on component speaker selection, leaning towards audiofrog, but also flax evos, and morel hybrids are in the running), what would you all do ? I know some will suggest helix and ditch the other DSPs, it’s an option, but I have easier access to what’s listed here.

 

Thanks in advance all, glad I joined !

[TheBKG]

2-way or 3-ways up front?  I've seen a system with dual 5 channel Masconi amps where each amp powered the Left & Right sides independently.  They had 3-ways up front run active, channel 4 powering a Co-ax rear, then channel 5 ran 1 of 2 Subs.  So even if you want to trade 3-way for 2-way up front and bridge 2 channels for the Mids that setup would still work great. 

 

Audio control just came out with a new 5-Channel amp with built-in DSP.  Your proposed design can easily be done with those.  They have built in high voltage inputs so easy to use them for stock integration.  

 

As for the Helix I'd say that depends on just how detailed you want to get into DSP?  Do you have the skills and tools to tune yourself or having a shop do it?  If all you want is basic time ALIGNMENT and EQ Correction then stick with Audison or Audio Control (I've heard Audison can be a little noisier myself but I've never used it myself to know). 

[RawLobst3r]

On 4/19/2022 at 5:40 PM, TheBKG said:

2-way or 3-ways up front?  I've seen a system with dual 5 channel Masconi amps where each amp powered the Left & Right sides independently.  They had 3-ways up front run active, channel 4 powering a Co-ax rear, then channel 5 ran 1 of 2 Subs.  So even if you want to trade 3-way for 2-way up front and bridge 2 channels for the Mids that setup would still work great. 

 

Audio control just came out with a new 5-Channel amp with built-in DSP.  Your proposed design can easily be done with those.  They have built in high voltage inputs so easy to use them for stock integration.  

 

As for the Helix I'd say that depends on just how detailed you want to get into DSP?  Do you have the skills and tools to tune yourself or having a shop do it?  If all you want is basic time ALIGNMENT and EQ Correction then stick with Audison or Audio Control (I've heard Audison can be a little noisier myself but I've never used it myself to know). 

 

Thanks for the reply ! 

 

So I made some decisions and totally diverted from the path above and did something different. I went with RF Power series amps.

 

A T1500-1BDCP, 2 x T600-4B, and 2 x JL 8w7s. Got them ordered this morning so they are en route!

 

I will be running the 8w7s in a front firing ported box under the rear seat of my 2017 F150 Limited. I figure that if for some reason these just don't do it for me they would be fairly easy to unload and I would try out Rage or Rampage B2s.

 

1 T600 running Tweeters and Rears, 1 bridged to front Mid Bass.

 

I did end up going with a Helix DSP 3.S. I know it is on the advanced side of things, and while I am new to DSPs I'm a pretty technical/handy dude (Data Center Architect) so hopefully I will be set up for success. I will likely buy the gear to get it tuned up. 

 

Still deciding on speakers but I think that I will be going with GB60 & GB10 Frogs up front and some GS CoAx in the rear. I would really like to run GB15s and found some posts on the F150 forum where they fit in factory location, but also saw that someone was having an issue with the panoramic sunroof drain line getting in the way. I have the vista sunroof, might have to just order both GB10 and GB15 and see which I can make fit.

 

Also on my short list if I don't go with the frogs are Arc Audio RS, Dynaudio, and Ground Zero Uranium/Plutonium. I unfortunately suffer from paralysis by analysis, while that lends well to me being good at my job/in my field, in this situation without being able to audition things like I can with home audio its tough.

 

I don't see to many folks running the RF power amps but I personally found their specs to be pretty impressive and they should give me all of the power I need to balance SQ and Volume. Or at least that is what I am hoping to achieve with the strong good clean power, solid speakers, and a proper DSP.

 

Open to any feedback, especially on the speakers, I need to make a decision so I can get everything here and the install underway. Slowly but surely getting there !

[TheBKG]

There are TONS of systems with RF Power amps out there.  And JL 8W7's, Excellent Choice! Many in CA consider them overpriced since there are louder subs with higher wattage potential.  But to discerning ears there are none more accurate or better sounding if you want powerful bass IN your music, rather than Being your music. 🤣

 

I'm a former Pro Audio Engineer and the Helix is my personal choice once I'm ready to build a new system.  If you haven't already download REW and start learning how to use it.  JL Audio has a series of amazing YouTube videos on DSP Tuning that are the best DSP Training I've found to date. 

 

Do you not have any local install/sales shops that carry high quality speakers you can go and listen to? Mids & Highs can't be discerned thru Spec's.  They have to be listened to.  If thats not a possibility then I suggest before you order them setup a way to test them outside of the car first.  Build a basic box, large enough to be close to infinite baffle for the woofer, with the T600 and a 12V Battery.  Trying to wait until you've installed them to listen to them will likely exceed the Return Period. 

[RawLobst3r]

Right on ! I'm sure there are tons out there with the RF Power amps, unfortunately I think that the internet/forum world likes to look for amps with "SQ" in their part number and (or at least a decent portion of it based on what I have read) only think of RFs entry level line(s) or have memories of them being at best buy and look right past them, or only give credence to the RF amps of yesteryear.

 

That's also not to say I don't think/acknowledge that many of the more popular "SQ' forward options are superior, but was honestly really surprised by the RF Power specs for THD, SNR, Dampening, etc, when doing the cursory internet spec sheet sleuthing. I also am in the camp of amps do make a difference in sound and trust my ears more than a spec sheet, trying to only comment on things I have actually heard, which also seems like a rare practice on the web lol. 

 

You are right that there is a popular opinion that w7s are overpriced, or old tech, and maybe they are, but for me I feel like I am getting a lot for my money, they have always been super musical to my ears, and that they are one of those "I couldn't afford it back then but can now" kind of things, I am super excited to give them a shot! I figure they will be relatively easy to unload if for some reason I want to try something else, which would likely be an option from B2. B2 seems like a solid compromise of SPL and SQ approach. 

 

I used to live in the Tampa area and would have had access to a lot of shops to click through their sound boards or link up with someone to hear their car, but we moved to new england a couple years back and there is nothing around my area. I am relying on the systems I have had in the past and the pretty significant experience I have with home audio to make my decisions. I think that any of the speakers I have listed will be awesome. I am leaning towards the audiofrogs, but the Arc Audio RS are very alluring. I may have to do my own auditioning and return or sell the left overs. I know I am already likely to have to double up on AF Tweeters, I want to try to fit the GB15. 

 

I did download the SW for a bunch of stuff to make more informed decisions. I will check out that content you mentioned for sure. 

 

Thanks again for an actual response ! 

[TheBKG]

Most likely the "SQ" amps are Class A/B, which do perform better on Mids & Highs better than Class D for the most part.  Not 'as necessary' for Subs IMO, especially given how much more power Subs require the increased efficiency is well worth it.  However, I've heard from many that later generations of top notch Class D amps have great sound quality.  I was out of the CA habit when Class D came out, though I was working in Pro Audio at the time  so I haven't personal experience to draw on in that debate.  I can say however that my plan for my next system is an A/B amp for front stage. 

[RawLobst3r]

I feel you there, The 2 T600-4s I went with are A/B, I to still think they have the edge. T1500 is Class D. Class D has for sure come a long way, some really killer options out there. There of course is the "amplifiers don't make a difference in sound" crowd, I don't happen to be in that camp. 

 

I have been out of the game for a bit as well. Still pretty heavy on home audio during my CA hiatus, music gear as well. It's been cool getting back into this side of the house after being gone, so much cool stuff to read through. learn about, and eventually buy haha.