Mcintosh Components

[Megalomaniac]

Im just saying that you will hear stuff that you didn't hear before.... including injected noise.

You can hear induced noises with any speakers, including a $6 radioshack speaker I have sitting in my closet, if the issue is in the amp. However I do agree better amps are more reliable and are least likely to fail in the run. I suggest getting an amp that is highly regulated like the JL Audio amps, my personal choice would be the new HD amps. They have a small foot print, puts out power from 11v-14.5v, and gives the power out in fullrange. Why regulated? Regulated is better even though the current demand may go up. I rather have the current demand go up when the voltage drops than to have my music go quieter when the car is off. When JL releases an 5 channel amp that has a bit more power for my needs I will be upgrading my amp myself.

Edited December 15, 2008 by Megalomaniac

[Colin - STAPUFT]

You can hear induced noises with any speakers, including a $6 radioshack speaker I have sitting in my closet, if the issue is in the amp. However I do agree better amps are more reliable and are least likely to fail in the run. I suggest getting an amp that is highly regulated like the JL Audio amps, my personal choice would be the new HD amps. They have a small foot print, puts out power from 11v-14.5v, and gives the power out in fullrange. Why regulated? Regulated is better even though the current demand my go up. I rather have the current demand go up when the voltage drops than to have my music go quieter when the car is off. When JL releases an 5 channel amp that has a bit more power for my needs I will be upgrading my amp myself.

Very true.

[bumonskateboard6]

I've already got two layers of dynamat xtreme throughout the car, so deadening shouldn't be too big of a problem and I realized if I'm gonna do the McIntosh components that I should probably pull my pioneer amp (PRS-A900) and upgrade to a McIntosh amp most likely a MCC404M, or I may take a look at those new JL amps but until I get a bit more money that pioneer will work fine. It's going into an Acura Tl so I do want it to sound good all around. Although I may not get the rear ones yet and do a 3sixty to tune everything up to sound good for me, worry about passengers later.

[Megalomaniac]

How about a Zapco DC Reference amp? You can still do all tuning on a computer and it will be cheaper than a Mac amp and a 3sixty.2 combined, also you will shed some weight, space, wiring, and hassle.

Here are some nice Acura installs to help brain storm some:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diyma-...retty-good.html

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diyma-...l-complete.html

Edited December 15, 2008 by Megalomaniac

[Neel]

Amplifiers only amplify sound, there is no proof that one amp is better than another sonically.

care to explain? Im pretty sure Robert Zeff would say otherwise, a different amp can change the way everything sounds. The way the amplifier is designed can change overall tonality, response and even staging (only if your current setup is designed well enough to bring out the best or worst in the amp.) Dont give blanket statements like that unless you really know what your talking about.

[Neel]

Also if you plan on running Mcintosh stuff , i would definitely not recommend JL...... If you are working on building an sq car meaning flat response and you have a great center stage, and then also dont mind spending the money on nice equipment, I would go with either Brax , Helix , Audison, Arc Audio and of course Mcintosh. I recommend older zapco amps.. the ones that Zeff designed ... i dont really know about the newer ones now that Zeff went on board with Demitrios Karabinis and now designs the Arc Audio amps. As far as processing goes, i personally wouldnt go with the 360.2..I like the DQS and so do a couple of old SQ comp judges, however Eric Holdaway recommend me the H701 so i guess to each their own. You are not going to appreciate the quality of your equipment without proper setup, make sure you EQ your left channel and your right channel separately, I did this with my 880 and even though i only have dual 16 band eq, it greatly helped center my image and helped with tonality. Also playing with time alignment will help compensate for not putting your speakers in the absolute perfect locations..which is usually impossible in most cars. As far as enclosures go.... if your really dedicated and feel like spending the time to build and tune AP boxes for each speaker , it would be the BEST way to go. Seeing as how you plan on spending alot of money for good stuff, i dont see why you would just swap em out with your factory speakers and put em in the same location with nothing behind em. If i had to put them in factory locations i would definitely enclose them in a small sealed box at the very least if not an AP box. The only problem i see with putting the speakers in factory door locations is "beaming" , According to Steven Kephart from Adire Audio for the most part you wont be able to tell the difference between the placement of a speaker within a foot or so until the speaker begins to beam, when the speaker beams it will be hard to get the same image you get from the usual off axis response that you get and end up throwing your imaging off. Kick panels are the best way to go in almost all cars because they are usually the places in which you can have both speakers and tweeters at almost equal distances from the judges (according to eric holdaway and rob greene) .

Sorry for the long post.. i guess i could go on forever about all the variables in car stereo.. Also all this stuff for the most part is just stuff i have learned from past SQ judges and guys like holdaway so most of what i have learned came from their mouths and ive wrote what they have taught me to the best of my ability.

-Neel

[Megalomaniac]

All you are doing is regurgitating information. You cant tell him whats best without knowing his variables, you are jumping the gun.

An SQ car does not mean a flat response, however that is a part of it. In SQ the whole idea is to accurately reproduce the music as it was originally intended to be heard.

Factory locations are completely fine in a daily car, as long as you find a suitable driver for them. No beaming needs to be involved if your driver has a great off-axis response, depth can sometimes be increased as well from doing this.

Why are you completely against JL? JL makes outstanding products, they are up there with Audison, Brax, and Helix if not better. The new JL HD or even the Alpine PDX amps have a smaller footprint, it will make installation easier and will save space for a daily car. Do you realize how ridiculously big and heavy the Mac amps are? Sure they look cool, but the trade off of space and weight is horrible and not the best decision.

[Neel]

I am letting him know all the options he has and letting him make his own decisions, all i did was point him in the right direction. I put a lot of information out there and gave references to who i got it from so that he knows what i am saying is backed by some of the most respected guys in car stereo...where are you getting your info from? As far as factory positions go, the only reason i dont like them is because of the fact that they are usually in funky positions that are very different distances apart from the listeners, even though this can be fixed by time alignment.

What do you mean beaming wont be involved? The speaker will beam, you can find the frequency it will beam by using D^2/lambda, so yeah around the frequency it beams at, the off axis response will start to go away and yes the speaker will start to beam. How is stage depth increased by having one speaker right next to your left leg and the other on all the way on the right door?

JL's amps have great regulated power supplies, ill give you that, but compare their total harmonic distortion with the higher end companies, JL with.03%, mctinosh with.005%, and brax with .003% . Although you cant judge an amp just by THD and signal to noise alone, i can guarantee you can hear the difference. Have you heard a mcintosh or brax amp before? The PDX amps are great, i can say that because i tried one out in my car before i replaced it with my Arc amp, the difference was very noticeable and thats why im still running my Arc amp.

Also i believe any further discussion that is not really on topic anymore should go to strictly PM, i dont want us to dump all over the OP's thread

Edited December 17, 2008 by Neel

[Megalomaniac]

where are you getting your info from?

- What information in particular would you like to know where I got from?

What do you mean beaming wont be involved? The speaker will beam, you can find the frequency it will beam by using D^2/lambda, so yeah around the frequency it beams at, the off axis response will start to go away and yes the speaker will start to beam.

- Not all speakers have terrible beaming attributes.

How is stage depth increased by having one speaker right next to your left leg and the other on all the way on the right door?

- Lobbing of the speaker dispersion pattern.

JL's amps have great regulated power supplies, ill give you that, but compare their total harmonic distortion with the higher end companies, JL with.03%, mctinosh with.005%, and brax with .003% . Although you cant judge an amp just by THD and signal to noise alone, i can guarantee you can hear the difference. Have you heard a mcintosh or brax amp before? The PDX amps are great, i can say that because i tried one out in my car before i replaced it with my Arc amp, the difference was very noticeable and thats why im still running my Arc amp.

- What you are hearing, at least on the Mac amp, is coloration, which is a form of distortion, some people enjoy it. Yes I have heard a Mac amp(s), on numerous occasions, where do you think that photo came from

answers in bold*

[Neel]

Most people that design speakers and crossovers avoid lobbing like the plague.. especially in cases where listeners will be listening to speakers that are off axis.

I think you are confused with the warm distortion that tube amps give out, I don’t think mcintosh makes any tube amps for car stereo..