Astro Build - 12 Cerwin-Vega 12"s in a Clamshell C-Pillar Wall

[Colin - STAPUFT]

I got something! What is that you say... a motor so I can actually drive my van? No. But something cool none the less.

I am going outside to play! lol

[Colin - STAPUFT]

Oh my goodness. You guys need to get an O-scope or at least dial in your system with one.

Over the weekend I made a CD with several setup tracks (left, right, mono, phasing, tweeter and woofer sweeps, 0 Bit pink and white noise, 0 Bit tracks for each of my EQs 15 bands, individual 0 Bit tones from 40-60 hz, and several really good SQ songs that were all as close to clipping as I could get Audacity to make them). Then I calibrated the scope and had a good time today dialing things in.

I set my HU settings flat and began by checking the RCAs and HU for clipping. It would seem that my Pioneer (depending on what frequency it is) likes to clip in the 55 out of 62 range. So I set the HU and went to town on different tracks. I set the bars on the 15 bands of the EQs almost all the way UP. This way I can't clip later b/c if I ever get to dial my EQs in with a good RTA, I just adjust the peaks down and the highest settings still can't clip. I set the input levels on the EQs and on my Bass Processors as high as possible before clipping. Then I set the output levels on both of them right up to clipping level. My freakin' EQs put out over 8 volts and my Bass Processors will do over 12 volts CLEAN. However- the Xover downstream of the EQs can't handle that as demonstrated by their funky output even at lowest level. So, back to the EQs and I lowered their outputs to where the Xover was clean. Then I checked the High, Mid, and Low on the Xover- all clean at max setting.

Then I did the same thing with checking the speaker level output on the High, Mid and Low amps. I set each one where all of the amps were putting out clean signals at my max HU volume (high set with 9000hz tone, Mid with 800hz tone, low with 60 hz tone). I then did the same thing with the HUs sub outputs and with the Bass Processors. Then I set the outputs and bass boosts on the 3 Brutus amps. All this took a while, but I really like to turn knobs- so it was fun.

Things I noticed with RCA output voltages- the voltage gets higher and higher UNTIL the signal is clipped. Then the voltage drops and fluctuates. So in my case, a cleaner signal was a higher voltage signal.

As far as the levels on the amps and my processors- everything I had before was clipping. And I mean everything. Some not too bad, others were awful. Lots of my problem was that my EQ RCA outputs were over powering my Xover inputs. We can see how that is a problem... Everything down stream of my Xover was dirty. No longer. Same deal with my 12 volt RCA output from my Bass Processors to my Brutus amps.

Impressions- well, the system isn't as loud now- UNTIL you listen to a good track with lots of transients (Paul Potts - Nessun Dorma & Suzanne Vega - Calypso & Bonnie Raitt - I Can't Make You Love Me). With stuff dialed in PROPERLY, I was blown away. There is NO ambient noise or hiss at any volume. When songs build and get louder, they get really really loud. And they do all this and sound crystal clear. I have noticed all kinds of crazy sounds on tracks that I never heard before. Things like when a guitarist runs his hands down the strings, vocalists taking short breaths between verses, background sounds that seemingly have no business in a song. I can hear slight echoes now that were never there and the separation between instruments, drums, and vocals is so distinct now that it is unbelievable. I can't explain it, but I can almost feel how big the recording room is where the vocalist was singing. I can definitely tell when they are alone in a booth or when they are in a room with other instruments. I didn't change any speakers or their positions either.

Sick. Go get one of these things, Guys!

[micb]

Oh my goodness. You guys need to get an O-scope or at least dial in your system with one.

Over the weekend I made a CD with several setup tracks (left, right, mono, phasing, tweeter and woofer sweeps, 0 Bit pink and white noise, 0 Bit tracks for each of my EQs 15 bands, individual 0 Bit tones from 40-60 hz, and several really good SQ songs that were all as close to clipping as I could get Audacity to make them). Then I calibrated the scope and had a good time today dialing things in.

I set my HU settings flat and began by checking the RCAs and HU for clipping. It would seem that my Pioneer (depending on what frequency it is) likes to clip in the 55 out of 62 range. So I set the HU and went to town on different tracks. I set the bars on the 15 bands of the EQs almost all the way UP. This way I can't clip later b/c if I ever get to dial my EQs in with a good RTA, I just adjust the peaks down and the highest settings still can't clip. I set the input levels on the EQs and on my Bass Processors as high as possible before clipping. Then I set the output levels on both of them right up to clipping level. My freakin' EQs put out over 8 volts and my Bass Processors will do over 12 volts CLEAN. However- the Xover downstream of the EQs can't handle that as demonstrated by their funky output even at lowest level. So, back to the EQs and I lowered their outputs to where the Xover was clean. Then I checked the High, Mid, and Low on the Xover- all clean at max setting.

Then I did the same thing with checking the speaker level output on the High, Mid and Low amps. I set each one where all of the amps were putting out clean signals at my max HU volume (high set with 9000hz tone, Mid with 800hz tone, low with 60 hz tone). I then did the same thing with the HUs sub outputs and with the Bass Processors. Then I set the outputs and bass boosts on the 3 Brutus amps. All this took a while, but I really like to turn knobs- so it was fun.

Things I noticed with RCA output voltages- the voltage gets higher and higher UNTIL the signal is clipped. Then the voltage drops and fluctuates. So in my case, a cleaner signal was a higher voltage signal.

As far as the levels on the amps and my processors- everything I had before was clipping. And I mean everything. Some not too bad, others were awful. Lots of my problem was that my EQ RCA outputs were over powering my Xover inputs. We can see how that is a problem... Everything down stream of my Xover was dirty. No longer. Same deal with my 12 volt RCA output from my Bass Processors to my Brutus amps.

Impressions- well, the system isn't as loud now- UNTIL you listen to a good track with lots of transients (Paul Potts - Nessun Dorma & Suzanne Vega - Calypso & Bonnie Raitt - I Can't Make You Love Me). With stuff dialed in PROPERLY, I was blown away. There is NO ambient noise or hiss at any volume. When songs build and get louder, they get really really loud. And they do all this and sound crystal clear. I have noticed all kinds of crazy sounds on tracks that I never heard before. Things like when a guitarist runs his hands down the strings, vocalists taking short breaths between verses, background sounds that seemingly have no business in a song. I can hear slight echoes now that were never there and the separation between instruments, drums, and vocals is so distinct now that it is unbelievable. I can't explain it, but I can almost feel how big the recording room is where the vocalist was singing. I can definitely tell when they are alone in a booth or when they are in a room with other instruments. I didn't change any speakers or their positions either.

Sick. Go get one of these things, Guys!

You should not need to ever need to use a EQ turned up near its limits.

For boost you should not need more than 6db. If you need more then there is a problem with the speaker install, e.g good seal, phase, speaker placement or cabin.

Sometimes more than -6db of cut is required due to various reasons.

[Colin - STAPUFT]

You should not need to ever need to use a EQ turned up near its limits.

For boost you should not need more than 6db. If you need more then there is a problem with the speaker install, e.g good seal, phase, speaker placement or cabin.

Sometimes more than -6db of cut is required due to various reasons.

I understand what you are saying. However, I am not using the EQ to boost anything other than my clean RCA voltage.

Imagine that "flat" on the EQ is 0- between +6 and -6. This is effectively what I did, with all of the levels flat. However, my current 0 is with each frequency band turned to +5. +5 is actually my new 0. At my +5, nothing clips. So with my +5 the actual 0, that leaves me -11 to adjust down. So now I ONLY adjust my EQ Down. Nothing can clip from there. So when I get it put on an RTA, when I find the peaks I just drop them. The lowest level of output will be the bar that is the highest- and my peaks I will have gobs of room to adjust down.

I don't really care if someone looks at my EQ and sees how crazy the bands are. This is all just for fun anyway. lol

[micahmye]

Oh my goodness. You guys need to get an O-scope or at least dial in your system with one.

Over the weekend I made a CD with several setup tracks (left, right, mono, phasing, tweeter and woofer sweeps, 0 Bit pink and white noise, 0 Bit tracks for each of my EQs 15 bands, individual 0 Bit tones from 40-60 hz, and several really good SQ songs that were all as close to clipping as I could get Audacity to make them). Then I calibrated the scope and had a good time today dialing things in.

I set my HU settings flat and began by checking the RCAs and HU for clipping. It would seem that my Pioneer (depending on what frequency it is) likes to clip in the 55 out of 62 range. So I set the HU and went to town on different tracks. I set the bars on the 15 bands of the EQs almost all the way UP. This way I can't clip later b/c if I ever get to dial my EQs in with a good RTA, I just adjust the peaks down and the highest settings still can't clip. I set the input levels on the EQs and on my Bass Processors as high as possible before clipping. Then I set the output levels on both of them right up to clipping level. My freakin' EQs put out over 8 volts and my Bass Processors will do over 12 volts CLEAN. However- the Xover downstream of the EQs can't handle that as demonstrated by their funky output even at lowest level. So, back to the EQs and I lowered their outputs to where the Xover was clean. Then I checked the High, Mid, and Low on the Xover- all clean at max setting.

Then I did the same thing with checking the speaker level output on the High, Mid and Low amps. I set each one where all of the amps were putting out clean signals at my max HU volume (high set with 9000hz tone, Mid with 800hz tone, low with 60 hz tone). I then did the same thing with the HUs sub outputs and with the Bass Processors. Then I set the outputs and bass boosts on the 3 Brutus amps. All this took a while, but I really like to turn knobs- so it was fun.

Things I noticed with RCA output voltages- the voltage gets higher and higher UNTIL the signal is clipped. Then the voltage drops and fluctuates. So in my case, a cleaner signal was a higher voltage signal.

As far as the levels on the amps and my processors- everything I had before was clipping. And I mean everything. Some not too bad, others were awful. Lots of my problem was that my EQ RCA outputs were over powering my Xover inputs. We can see how that is a problem... Everything down stream of my Xover was dirty. No longer. Same deal with my 12 volt RCA output from my Bass Processors to my Brutus amps.

Impressions- well, the system isn't as loud now- UNTIL you listen to a good track with lots of transients (Paul Potts - Nessun Dorma & Suzanne Vega - Calypso & Bonnie Raitt - I Can't Make You Love Me). With stuff dialed in PROPERLY, I was blown away. There is NO ambient noise or hiss at any volume. When songs build and get louder, they get really really loud. And they do all this and sound crystal clear. I have noticed all kinds of crazy sounds on tracks that I never heard before. Things like when a guitarist runs his hands down the strings, vocalists taking short breaths between verses, background sounds that seemingly have no business in a song. I can hear slight echoes now that were never there and the separation between instruments, drums, and vocals is so distinct now that it is unbelievable. I can't explain it, but I can almost feel how big the recording room is where the vocalist was singing. I can definitely tell when they are alone in a booth or when they are in a room with other instruments. I didn't change any speakers or their positions either.

Sick. Go get one of these things, Guys!

Hey that's the same scope I have Do you like it?

Any chance of me getting a copy of that CD that you made? I can send you $$$ for shipping or give you a FTP to upload it to

[Colin - STAPUFT]

Give me the FTP site and I will hook you up!

[tigers9304]

Where did you purchase that from?

[micahmye]

I got mine from eBay Here, You can get the not so sexy backlight version Here also.

[micb]

I understand what you are saying. However, I am not using the EQ to boost anything other than my clean RCA voltage.

Imagine that "flat" on the EQ is 0- between +6 and -6. This is effectively what I did, with all of the levels flat. However, my current 0 is with each frequency band turned to +5. +5 is actually my new 0. At my +5, nothing clips. So with my +5 the actual 0, that leaves me -11 to adjust down. So now I ONLY adjust my EQ Down. Nothing can clip from there. So when I get it put on an RTA, when I find the peaks I just drop them. The lowest level of output will be the bar that is the highest- and my peaks I will have gobs of room to adjust down.

I don't really care if someone looks at my EQ and sees how crazy the bands are. This is all just for fun anyway. lol

You do realise EQ bands shift phase right?

The more EQ you use the more you shift phase the of ajacent frequnecys around your center frequency.

You can have a system that is good in its phase responce when flat then if you add EQ bands you can make it have phase problems right across the range where you have EQ'ed.

[micb]

Sorry double post.