Why Our President Is A Socialist

[camino_1to3]

For GM, I have no say on that. I do agree though, with the fact that GWB was a moron, and a crook. Him, along with all the speculators that literally created the ridiculous price for a single barrel of oil. It's simple to see that he is now out of office and things on that end are taking the latter, and returning to the "norm" somewhat. I think that those speculators were probably paid off and the former Pres. knew exactly what was going to happen, so that when he got out of office he could kick back on his ranch with his "Texas Tea" and live life richer, many times over, than before he took office originally in 2000. I'm very conservative, but I'm not a GWB fan.

[camino_1to3]

agree with you camino. that tax bullshit is stupid as hell.

im not real big on politics or anything, but i cant stand all the fucking handouts our government gives out.

especially with people on welfare, give them 6 months to a year and if they cant find a job within that amount of time tough shit.

Thanks for the input. Could I ask everyone to watch the "F" bombs though, I want to discuss this issue in as civilized manner as possible. Hopefully we can educate eachother.

[RamenNoodles]

How many of those people who are rich really earned it though?

Bill Gates, Steve Jobbs, sure. How about those banks that completely failed? How about the people that simple inherit the money and flaunt it like its their job.

I dont believe all the rich earn where they are, but that is just me. Tiger Woods did not earn 100 million dollars last year, nor did any other athlete who makes that kind of money. How about the teachers, police officers, firefighters, anyone who busts their ass every day making in the ball park of 50g a year for their entire life. Who is to say they didnt work as hard because they make less.

Being rich in my opinion is 95% luck. Right place, right people, right time is all that matters unless you do something spectacular for mankind.

[camino_1to3]

How many of those people who are rich really earned it though?

Bill Gates, Steve Jobbs, sure. How about those banks that completely failed? How about the people that simple inherit the money and flaunt it like its their job.

I dont believe all the rich earn where they are, but that is just me. Tiger Woods did not earn 100 million dollars last year, nor did any other athlete who makes that kind of money. How about the teachers, police officers, firefighters, anyone who busts their ass every day making in the ball park of 50g a year for their entire life. Who is to say they didnt work as hard because they make less.

Being rich in my opinion is 95% luck. Right place, right people, right time is all that matters unless you do something spectacular for mankind.

That is very true. I see your point there, though I don't believe that getting rich is 95% luck, for some people it obviously is though in reality really isn't. I have always had the same mindset as you though, when someone brings it up I say, "It's funny that someone can earn a million to run down a court with a ball but people can run in to fires to earn just enough to provide for themselves, their families, and have near minimal leisure spending here and there"

[ryde2idie]

I have to agree with Camino, I personally cannot stand Obama. Not him as a person but his political views and the way he seems to be taking the country. Just recently he basically fired GMs CEO and told them what cars they can and cannot make. Since when did the government have any say in the ongoings of a private company, even if that company is taking government money to save their ass. One of the vehicles that GM was assumedly told to quit production of, is there line of pickups. GMs pickups are one of their more profitable lines, why take away something that is keeping the company alive?

Just my .02

Obama is cracking down on global warming. seein as how we are a major country, we contribute alot of everything, including green house gases. i think america is pretty well known for its gas guzzlers and our companys just keep producing them so people will just keep buyin (its like trying to get a stubborn chunky person to go on a diet to be healty, they arent going to eat healty if you keep throwing mcdonalds in their face) im sure GM can still make pick ups just not as gas consuming. i mean GM is a very wealthy company they have very smart scientist and they need to stop bankin on americas sweet tooth for gas hogs and start making cars more suitable for the 21st century. obama has to be hard on these companys because he gave them a huge amount of money and he has to make sure that it goes in the right direction.

and camino i will keep being polite my friend i would like for this subject to stay alive on SMD.

now with that being said your point of how a man can make millions jus runnin down the court and a man that fights fires barley makes enough is very true and very sad but that is just how people are and how we are programed we pay money to go watch these men/women play sports but never pay to watch the garbage man take your trash. i think this goes way back to roman times maybe even further and how people would go see other people play against each other and maybe this set of people was from the east side of the empire and the other was from the westside and you get that sence of pride so you go everytime to support your team but now the teams have figured that out so they charge you more to show your pride. now you have hats and t shirts, now you can be just like the players and its insane. i mean you saw the sales of FDNY skyrocketed after 9/11 because people had to show there support for this country. they had to show there pride and who would be the victor after all this. and thats just how we are programmed people want to show that they are apart of somthn people want to show their side and their point of view thats why everyone gets upset about these topics because wen somone says awh our president sucks or our president rocks your not only steppin on someones opinion your steppin on their pride and thats what gets everyone so fired up.

[DHFHades]

I think the world can use a little socialism. the fact that 1% of the population controls 80% of the worlds wealth is bullshit. the people at the top that are getting paid millions of dollars a year are greedy and do not need near that much money to live comfortably. just my opinion

[Colin - STAPUFT]

How many of those people who are rich really earned it though?

Being rich in my opinion is 95% luck. Right place, right people, right time is all that matters unless you do something spectacular for mankind.

I'm not using you as a springboard or getting mad at you- I am just addressing some things that sprung to mind after reading your post.

Why should that matter- IF they earned it legally and morally? EVERYONE in America is considered rich to some other countries. Should we pool our money and send it there? But for the conversation, let's just stay in America. Maybe you have 2 subs and I have none. Does that mean I deserve one because you have 2?

How is it "fair" that the more you make, the more you are taxed as a percentage? Just because I made "more"- then I should be forced to give it to the less fortunate (who may or may not work or apply themselves)? How is it possible that if I work a 5 hours of overtime I actually make LESS money than if I work just 40 hours?? Where is my incentive to work "more"? There isn't.

I got this in an email called "Economics 101":

An economics professor at Texas Tech said he had never failed a single student before but had, once, failed an entire class. That class had insisted that socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer. The professor then said ok, we will have an experiment in this class on socialism.

All grades would be averaged and everyone would receive the same grade so no one would fail and no one would receive an A. After the first test the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. But, as the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too; so they studied little.. The second test average was a D! No one was happy. When the 3rd test rolled around the average was an F.

The scores never increased as bickering, blame, name calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else. All failed, to their great surprise, and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great; but when government takes all the reward away; no one will try or want to succeed.

Could not be any simpler than that.....

[trainman0978]

To the O.P. : His tax hike for the rich is a 3% increase.... From 36 to 39 percent. I cant see how you are basing this one point as a profound excuse to cast him off as a socialist. And Socialism has its negative points, as does capitalism. Capitalism is huge fault in this country, and a major part of why we are in the recession we are in. Granted that capitalism can be blamed on both sides of the aisle, the tax hikes, the NAFTA ( thanks clinton ) and the allowance and leniency towards illegal immigrants .... which can be mostly faulted towards democrats. But move on to more serious issues, those that affect the majority of the population, and the voice they carry, and you start to see some major flaws in capitalism. Lobbyists, and the bills they write and bribe into law. Where are the republicans on lobby reform? .... not a peep from the right .... too many rich guys " working their asses off " and getting richer by not doing anything expect being born wealthy, and creating laws to keep them that way. Healthcare... the dreaded deadly topic of any discussion on any platform..... And the fact that a SOCIALIZED healthcare system works in virtually every country that has implemented such a program. There is no reason what so ever, that in the most wealthy , most powerful country on the planet.... that the most flawed healthcare system in the world continues to generate a more a enormous profit every year, yet we have one of the most unhealthy population models of any country, on any economic level.... Some tax is absolutely necessary.... This is where a "socialist model" would thrive.... in a country that has the means to fund it, better than any other country in the history of the world. But Capitalists seem to think that if a insurance company wants to deny people care, even with a policy stating that coverage is provided, because someone doesnt understand a contract that most lawyers can't decipher is complete bullshit.

And other issues, like gay marriage, abortion rights, religious influence on republican politics..... have absolutely no bearing on the law. Yet, we have congressman and senators telling the populous that we should pay more attention to their moral beliefs and not the laws and rights that this country is based on and supposed to be governed by.

But back on topic.... take labor laws, union rights, ( excluding those crooks in the UAW ) civil liberties, child education .... these are things that the LARGEST portion of the population in this country find to be the most important, and have the greatest impact on the country's economic bottom line. Plain and simple , you build a better product, you get more out of it.... that could be read as the product being a healthy , educated, and happy person..... who then has the knowledge, the quality of life, and the drive to create a product ( their career choice ) that better suits them to survive in this capitalist society we live in. There is no rational explanation , to me anyway, on how to validate no child left behind, grossly expensive healthcare, insurance costs that bankrupt people and they are still left sick and then bankrupt.

Then there is the military , or should I say the " big military " that republican capitalists are so fond of. Why is it that we have military in XXX amount of countries ( I think it is somewhere are 38 different countries ) , yet no country or nation has a military base in the U.S. ? I can give you a quick, dumbed down answer. Money. The democrats may have made the corporate tax rate difficult for manufacturing jobs to make a profit here.... But the republicans have further encouraged it by putting military installations in places to wave the proverbially " big stick " to show we are there to protect our economic interests in most of those countries. Why are we still keeping military in places where there hasnt been war in 50 plus years? It is because American financial interests are in those foreign lands, and we have to somehow give off the presence of being there for " peace ".... when it really comes down to nothing but being the big bully who can do what ever we want, where ever we feel like it. We have our own problems inside our borders, our job is not to behave as world police. The rest of the world looks at us as the bully in the school yard... and it is because almost every country of any significance has a U.S. military base somewhere on their land. Who the fuck are we to be the " Do as I say , not as I do " country..... The same goes for nuclear weapons. That is not a socialist, or even democratic issue. That is solely a right wing show of power. Why should we expect Iran and North Korea to do away with Nuclear research , when we have Nukes all over the world, ready to fire. Some how, the military believes that only the United states can own them , that only we can be the most responsible with them, there we can have them and no else can not? Granted, I dont like the idea of knowing that other countries have them, and may actually intend to use them, but hell.... I see both sides of this... do you?

And indulge me.... cause I know nothing about you? tell me exactly what the capitalist agenda has to done to benefit you directly, in your day to day life. Are you one of the top 1% that is going to suffer from a 3% tax hike? What sort of charity work do you to benefit the middle class and the poor in your neighborhood? How do you give back to your community? How many people do you know that are in danger of losing their home, and been told by the bank that they wont refinance that house , after the big banks collected all that money from government bailouts.... that they paid out employee bonuses on , instead of reinvesting it and doing the right thing.... where was the oversight in the last administration that let the wealthy corporations get rich " working their asses off " ... profiting off of people who are now broke, jobless, and foreclosed on?

The system is out of control, and this " socialist " is not going to stand by and do nothing. The way this country does business needs to change , and anything is better than what we were doing. If it does not work, then we will try something else. Which by far better than what we just spent 8 years enduring.

[loganuf]

How many of those people who are rich really earned it though?

Bill Gates, Steve Jobbs, sure. How about those banks that completely failed? How about the people that simple inherit the money and flaunt it like its their job.

I dont believe all the rich earn where they are, but that is just me. Tiger Woods did not earn 100 million dollars last year, nor did any other athlete who makes that kind of money. How about the teachers, police officers, firefighters, anyone who busts their ass every day making in the ball park of 50g a year for their entire life. Who is to say they didnt work as hard because they make less.

Being rich in my opinion is 95% luck. Right place, right people, right time is all that matters unless you do something spectacular for mankind.

i have to disagree with some of the things that were said here. who says that tiger woods did not EARN 100 million dollars this past year? he is the best at what he does, he works his ass off at what he does, and nobody else does it better. His daily routine starts at 6 oclock in the morning where he lifts for 2 hours, than breakfast, than he works on his short game, than he does cardio, than he goes and plays 9 holes, than he goes to the range to work on the shots he needed improving upon in the 9 holes, than more shortgame....a short break.....and than back out to the range. he than finishes the day back working on his short game. I know that 100 millon dollars is a lot of money, but if not him than it would be someone else. there has to be someone like this in our society...the "hero" sports figure, but in my opinion if any sports star deserves the big bucks its a guy like this that EARNS it day in and day out. I agree that teachers, firefighters, polive officers, etc. are severely underpayed.....i dont think anyone would argue that point, but the reason that tiger woods makes that kind of money is because people are willing to give it to him...hes able to be so good at something that ppl will pay him that rediculous amount of money to do it. so in reality its nothing but our own faults that sports figures make this kind of money, because we idolize them so much as a society that companies will pay stupid money to have a "swoosh" on his golf shirt, and in return crowds of ppl will buy that shirt as a result. i dont consider tiger woods anymore LUCKY than the rest if us, he was born with a god given gift that he uses to the fullest ability every day. many ppl are born with gifts, but never use them to their full potential.i don't think that anyone who works as hard as tiger can be considered lucky.....because without golf he was just another kid growing up in California.

[Colin - STAPUFT]

And indulge me.... cause I know nothing about you? tell me exactly what the capitalist agenda has to done to benefit you directly, in your day to day life. Are you one of the top 1% that is going to suffer from a 3% tax hike? What sort of charity work do you to benefit the middle class and the poor in your neighborhood? How do you give back to your community? How many people do you know that are in danger of losing their home, and been told by the bank that they wont refinance that house , after the big banks collected all that money from government bailouts.... that they paid out employee bonuses on , instead of reinvesting it and doing the right thing.... where was the oversight in the last administration that let the wealthy corporations get rich " working their asses off " ... profiting off of people who are now broke, jobless, and foreclosed on?

The system is out of control, and this " socialist " is not going to stand by and do nothing. The way this country does business needs to change , and anything is better than what we were doing. If it does not work, then we will try something else. Which by far better than what we just spent 8 years enduring.

You said so many different things that I can't begin to address them all. So I will bite on this one paragraph. I am going to try to the best of my ability to answer each one of your questions.

The capitalist agenda has allowed my parents to bring me into this world (I was a second child- In China, they would have killed me). It allowed my parents to raise me as they saw fit- which thank goodness was in a God fearing, reward based, conservative household. It allowed me to work my way through college where I EARNED a degree. I then used that degree as I saw fit- not as someone else told me to use it. I then used that degree to EARN a job that I enjoyed and was good at- not one that I "had" to get because I was told to. I then used the money that I EARNED to purchase a home that my wife and I could afford. Everything I have- by the blessing of God- I was allowed to EARN.

Yes, I have suffered from the tax hike, because many of these wealthy people earn so much because they run large businesses. These people and their businesses aren't going to run at a loss (like our government is doing and has been doing almost since day 1)- they will pass on the tax hike to someone else... someone else like me, a lowly consumer.

I tithe to my church. As in 10% or more of my gross income. Before the taxes or SOCIAL security (hey look! it is in the name!! SOCIAL) come out. I CHOOSE to do this. It is my choice. No one makes me, I do it for the good of others and to keep a giving attitude. My wife and I give more than the government takes for itself. So- there is my financial charity. On my own I give more than the government takes, DESPITE of what it takes from my check. My church donates to several local christian works as well as several local homeless foundations, overseas christian works that provide food and shelter if you are a christian or not. I give to the church so it can do the works- I don't want the recognition for the funds I give. I can't claim it on my taxes. Besides- it isn't my money after all, it is God's... I am just a steward of it. I am active in my church- that is active in my town.

I have spoken with at least 10 different individuals who "lost" their homes because they couldn't pay for them and couldn't get refinanced. Some couldn't get refinanced because with bad credit they made very poor choices with adjustable rate mortgages, others were laid off from their jobs, didn't have cash on hand to fall back on, and welfare and food stamps just didn't seem to be enough. What was in my pocket couldn't dig them out of a hole with 5 and 6 zeroes on it.

The last administration was trying to hold back the flood gates that the liberals at ACORN and Fanny May and Freddie Mack (ask good old Barney Frank about how well they did) had been unleashing from waaaaaaaay back since Clinton's administration. Remember when government and all of these "organizations" (ACORN being one of the most prominent) began saying that everyone deserves a home? Even Bush toward the end of his term started saying that stuff. In one breath liberals will call him stupid, and in the next claim that he knew of the upcoming crisis. Which one is it? Bush didn't do all of this in a short 8 years. This has been a long time coming. Everyone doesn't deserve a home. That is as plain as I can speak. You are telling me that a practicing drug dealer, an on the loose rapist, a liar who isn't really disabled, someone who is too lazy to work, someone who makes 30k a year but "wants" that 400k home, etc... deserves a home just because this is America? If you don't work you don't "deserve" a home. You have to EARN a home, just like I did and continue to do.

Now- can you answer your own questions?