Cash for clunkers

[dsoccer]

Hahahaha I do sleep well thank you

Hey, if you want to wallpaper your home with hundreds, go ahead. You are right, it is your right. But there is a difference in what I am saying and what you are saying. They can do what they want with it, but it does NO GOOD to the country's economy sitting in a bank account gaining .20% interest (that is about the average of a savings account these days, and I think CDs are close to that as well). My point is, is that money needs to be spent to get the country moving again. What keeps people unemployed?...job losses...What causes those job losses?...less business... Basically if you own an audio shop and everyone out there doesnt want to spend their money because they are scared of the future, what happens to your shop? Out of business sign? Same principle here...we need people spending more and keeping money flowing through the country....and that is exactly what CFC did (to a small degree, yes, but it created/saved JOBS!!!)!!

Yes it was bought on credit, BUT that credit from the banks turns into instant money for the dealers, parts makers, etc.

I love the point everyone brings up about Obama has spent the most money blah blah blah. Is it true? Yes it is. But is the reason why he has to spend it explained in the same paragraph? No...enough said on that.

You're right the government doesn't have it (the couple billions), nor do I, nor do you. But they will have it eventually. I don't have the money I spent on a car last year, but I will pay off the debt eventually. And then make more and more, so I don't have to rely on debt to pay for things. Same principle with the government, they will pay it off eventually, where the money comes from is a debate for the policy makers.

Just because you or I didn't take advantage of the CFC program does not mean its a terrible thing that the government gave money for a trade in.

I go back to my earlier point, that seems to get diluted, it was a success because it created jobs and put money back into the country...exactly what it was desgined to do. Oh and the long run environmental advantages are there too.

EDIT: I just watched that Corvette video, and from the looks of the condition of it, the owner could have probably gotten more then $4,500 for it. I put the blame on the owner not the government.

[dsoccer]

Thanks boss...I see it as one of many small solutions to gain some sort of traction, obviously not solve it, but help and not hurt. I didn't read the Recovery Act, but I think I heard somewhere where there are a few small programs like this one....a new one is coming out Cash for old Refrigerators.

[CodyB]

This is laughable. All your saying is "it didn't work as well...". It was a success period.

A little math for a second. You said these cars only do better by 5 mpg so it isn't worth it. I am going off of a low ball figure here. 450,000x5=2,250,000. In case you missed it that was 450,000 (I think it is closer to 500,000 but like I said I am low balling here) cars that are getting 5 more miles per gallon. That is 2.25 million more miles driven on the same amount of fuel boss. That means we consume less to go further, that means we burn less, that means we buy less, that means we depend less...

I heard the same argument on Boorts. This is just circle talk to give people who don't like Obama a reason to say it "didn't work". Spin is as spin does. The facts are pretty clear here. You had to have a high FICO score to get the loan from the bank. The banks are not (especially now) going to lend money to a high risk individual or piles of them because if they do when everyone is trying to get a deal they will end up owning all of these cars.

What is the cost of those miles driven if you factor in the cost of the vehicle along side the cost of gas? When you factor that in are you really saving money?

I think you are missing the bigger picture....the program was designed to get people to SPEND money, and help the environment. The fact that over 500,000 cars were sold means people were spending money, ie putting back into the economy instead of hoarding. If you watched that video you will hear how many jobs have been created just by the large companies, even more when you factor in the small parts companies...bottom line it was a success.

They spent money, not their money, they borrowed it. What was the percentage of people that bought the cars outright in CASH, not credit?

Again, 100% agreement with you. Airborne, you are laughable. ...that is your whole answer to a well written and thought out explanation???? This is laughable??? Geez. I do wish I hadn't seen the video of the Corvette though. CFC is the biggest BS I have ever seen!

You people saying that it got people to spend their money instead of hoarding it.... THIS IS AMERICA! I can do whatever I want with my money! If I want to squirrel it away and paper my walls with it, that is my prerogative. The wordage- that CFC MADE these people go out and spend money.... sheesh. CREDIT is what got us into this mess to begin with! "Everyone needs a home" and housing mortgage de-regulation is JUST like this, only this is with cars. Please someone tell me how many of these people are buying their CARS program cars full out with CASH???

Also, saying that it is just a couple of billion... what is another couple of billion compared to the rest of the debt? Good point. The Obama administration has spent more money in the last few months than were spent in Years (and no, this isn't me defending Bush, so don't bring that up...). My point- yeah really what is just a few billion more?!? Do you have it? No. THE GOVERNMENT Doesn't have it!!! So if I have 2 bucks and some guy walks up to me and asks for 5, I will tell him- Hell, you can have 20!! What does it matter???? I don't have it! It isn't real money!!

You are defending policies that are destroying Capitalism right in front of your face and you can't even see that!!!! I am so sad and upset that it is pissing me off! Capitalism that let you purchase your home with your hard earned money.... now YOUR money from tomorrow and your kids money and their kids money is going to go to pay for a car that someone financed and the government gave them 4,500 credit alllll the way back in 2009! That is one expensive ass car! It is getting financed now by the car buyer and again by the US Government from now ON!

They are TAKING your money and MINE to give to people to have NEW CARS!!!! There are Still people starving in this country and it is a "success" that people are driving new cars?!?! I hope you guys sleep well at night.

This is where I am coming from. I am a college student. I cannot afford a $20,000 vehicle even if I get the full $4,500 from the government. I can however afford a $3,000-$10,000 vehicle if I trade in my "clunker" to a used car salesman. My tuition for school is roughly $3,000, not including any fees or books or equipment I may need for classes. I can afford a smaller loan to cover the cost of a better newER car that has already depreciated in value, and I am putting the money back into my local economy.

Hahahaha I do sleep well thank you

Hey, if you want to wallpaper your home with hundreds, go ahead. You are right, it is your right. But there is a difference in what I am saying and what you are saying. They can do what they want with it, but it does NO GOOD to the country's economy sitting in a bank account gaining .20% interest (that is about the average of a savings account these days, and I think CDs are close to that as well). My point is, is that money needs to be spent to get the country moving again. What keeps people unemployed?...job losses...What causes those job losses?...less business... Basically if you own an audio shop and everyone out there doesnt want to spend their money because they are scared of the future, what happens to your shop? Out of business sign? Same principle here...we need people spending more and keeping money flowing through the country....and that is exactly what CFC did (to a small degree, yes, but it created/saved JOBS!!!)!!

Yes it was bought on credit, BUT that credit from the banks turns into instant money for the dealers, parts makers, etc.

I love the point everyone brings up about Obama has spent the most money blah blah blah. Is it true? Yes it is. But is the reason why he has to spend it explained in the same paragraph? No...enough said on that.

You're right the government doesn't have it (the couple billions), nor do I, nor do you. But they will have it eventually. I don't have the money I spent on a car last year, but I will pay off the debt eventually. And then make more and more, so I don't have to rely on debt to pay for things. Same principle with the government, they will pay it off eventually, where the money comes from is a debate for the policy makers.

Just because you or I didn't take advantage of the CFC program does not mean its a terrible thing that the government gave money for a trade in.

I go back to my earlier point, that seems to get diluted, it was a success because it created jobs and put money back into the country...exactly what it was desgined to do. Oh and the long run environmental advantages are there too.

EDIT: I just watched that Corvette video, and from the looks of the condition of it, the owner could have probably gotten more then $4,500 for it. I put the blame on the owner not the government.

The owners of cars like that sicken me because they could have gotten the same amount, OR BETTER from selling their car used instead of destroying it. I am not disputing the fact that there are some real pieces o crap that are being traded in, but there are numerous families that could have benefited from that now useless thing that's headed to the recyclers.

What do you think is going to happen to the people hired for this temporary solution? Are they going to keep employing them or do like they did once already and layoff these workers again when the demand goes back down? All these jobs may have helped them for a little while, but they are TEMPORARY! The auto makers learned to reduce their production when the economy slowed down, now this surge pushed them back up, but are they going to stay up there or do you think that when they end the program the automakers will consider reducing production since demand went down? Supply will follow demand, ALWAYS. America went on a buying spree, now that people are realizing the consequences to their actions that they will blindly go buying at the rate they were before, or will they slow down and think? I hope they begin thinking for themselves and not be like sheep following the leader blindly. I may be wrong in assuming this but I think that after the program is over with that people will go back to the way things were when people actually thought about their purchases and evaluated need vs want.

[1992Chevy K1500]

Hahahaha I do sleep well thank you

Hey, if you want to wallpaper your home with hundreds, go ahead. You are right, it is your right. But there is a difference in what I am saying and what you are saying. They can do what they want with it, but it does NO GOOD to the country's economy sitting in a bank account gaining .20% interest (that is about the average of a savings account these days, and I think CDs are close to that as well). My point is, is that money needs to be spent to get the country moving again. What keeps people unemployed?...job losses...What causes those job losses?...less business... Basically if you own an audio shop and everyone out there doesnt want to spend their money because they are scared of the future, what happens to your shop? Out of business sign? Same principle here...we need people spending more and keeping money flowing through the country....and that is exactly what CFC did (to a small degree, yes, but it created/saved JOBS!!!)!!

Yes it was bought on credit, BUT that credit from the banks turns into instant money for the dealers, parts makers, etc.

I love the point everyone brings up about Obama has spent the most money blah blah blah. Is it true? Yes it is. But is the reason why he has to spend it explained in the same paragraph? No...enough said on that.

You're right the government doesn't have it (the couple billions), nor do I, nor do you. But they will have it eventually. I don't have the money I spent on a car last year, but I will pay off the debt eventually. And then make more and more, so I don't have to rely on debt to pay for things. Same principle with the government, they will pay it off eventually, where the money comes from is a debate for the policy makers.

Just because you or I didn't take advantage of the CFC program does not mean its a terrible thing that the government gave money for a trade in.

I go back to my earlier point, that seems to get diluted, it was a success because it created jobs and put money back into the country...exactly what it was desgined to do. Oh and the long run environmental advantages are there too.

EDIT: I just watched that Corvette video, and from the looks of the condition of it, the owner could have probably gotten more then $4,500 for it. I put the blame on the owner not the government.

And when was the last time we had a budget where the gov't made more money than they spent? I believe it was the 90's. And before that the 60's or 70's. As long as this trend keeps up, our children and their children and their children and so forth and so on will pay for our spending.

Those cars that were destroyed could have been refurbished for a lot cheaper. Jobs could have been created refurbishing those cars that would have lasted a lot longer than those created under CFC. Short-term, it was a success. Long term-it made the situation worse.

And do you really think that people learn from history. Because if they did, history would rarely repeat itself. Instead it's repeating itself almost every generation or 2. Do you call a repeat or what happened not that long ago learning?

I'm not trashing anyone specifically.

[SlappinM30]

I think you are missing the bigger picture....the program was designed to get people to SPEND money, and help the environment. The fact that over 500,000 cars were sold means people were spending money, ie putting back into the economy instead of hoarding.

Most of the people that bought cars don't have enough money to "hoard it" they just have enough to pay bills that is why they needed the 4500 towards a car LOL. The people that are hoarding the money don't drive clunkers LOL! If the people that made all their money such as Microsoft,Apple,3M, Intel, HP,Chevy,Ford,Dodge, the list goes on and on ( http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/lou.dobbs....ca/content.html ) and they spent it here employing workers then maybe we wouldn't have so many people that need to take advantage such BS programs.

Again, 100% agreement with you. Airborne, you are laughable. ...that is your whole answer to a well written and thought out explanation???? This is laughable??? Geez. I do wish I hadn't seen the video of the Corvette though. CFC is the biggest BS I have ever seen!

You people saying that it got people to spend their money instead of hoarding it.... THIS IS AMERICA! I can do whatever I want with my money! If I want to squirrel it away and paper my walls with it, that is my prerogative. The wordage- that CFC MADE these people go out and spend money.... sheesh. CREDIT is what got us into this mess to begin with! "Everyone needs a home" and housing mortgage de-regulation is JUST like this, only this is with cars. Please someone tell me how many of these people are buying their CARS program cars full out with CASH???

Also, saying that it is just a couple of billion... what is another couple of billion compared to the rest of the debt? Good point. The Obama administration has spent more money in the last few months than were spent in Years (and no, this isn't me defending Bush, so don't bring that up...). My point- yeah really what is just a few billion more?!? Do you have it? No. THE GOVERNMENT Doesn't have it!!! So if I have 2 bucks and some guy walks up to me and asks for 5, I will tell him- Hell, you can have 20!! What does it matter???? I don't have it! It isn't real money!!

You are defending policies that are destroying Capitalism right in front of your face and you can't even see that!!!! I am so sad and upset that it is pissing me off! Capitalism that let you purchase your home with your hard earned money.... now YOUR money from tomorrow and your kids money and their kids money is going to go to pay for a car that someone financed and the government gave them 4,500 credit alllll the way back in 2009! That is one expensive ass car! It is getting financed now by the car buyer and again by the US Government from now ON!

They are TAKING your money and MINE to give to people to have NEW CARS!!!! There are Still people starving in this country and it is a "success" that people are driving new cars?!?! I hope you guys sleep well at night.

Really quick on the Vett topic that car is about 88% fiberglass and plastic, how much could really get recycled (I couldn't even watch the vid)!

This is what is great and bad about this country, we are allowed to form our own opinion. It just sucks to see so many of you be WRONG LOL! Success this and success that WRONG!

[CodyB]

I am glad to see all these opinions, I just HATE driving by the local dealerships seeing the "clunkers" that "look" like they are in better condition than 2 or 3 of the vehicles my family has. Call it Envy, but why should better vehicles go to the scrap yard than ones that do pollute more than the clunkers? I understand that they were trying to go Green, as in Money, not the green I had hoped (pollution)... Money is whats matters, not the environment... The fuel mileage thing is just flashy words to make people feel better about their new debt... I guess I actually cared about the environment but politicians care about money.

[dsoccer]

Look bottom line is, that it did what it was design to do!! No way to argue that.

If you ask someone who has been out of work for 6 months if they wanted to work for 3-4 months with no guarantee that it is a permanent job....what do you think they will say? "Der no I want a longer job..." NO they will take what they can get.

Like I said earlier, the money wont come from the people right away, it comes from the bank which goes right away to the dealer. So your right, I'm sure not many people bought them with straight cash, BUT OVER TIME they will pay for it....its how credit works.

It is just kind of funny, that anything this administration/congress/senate does is somehow never going to work or never has an upside. I bet Obama could pass a law saying that it is illegal to punch babies, but somehow it would be viewed as limiting the rights of Americans haha.

What is your point with that list? It is outsourcing. Sucks yes, good business yes (oh no I started another firestorm!!). But there are talks about incentivising companies to keep jobs here (which I agree with), to stop the outsourcing.

Of course, not trashing anyone specifically, just the only liberal that replies its cool though, if it were the other way around I'd gang up on the outsider too. It is interested to hear these arguments.

Question: Who agrees on more regulation for banks who started this mess, car companies that can't see the trend of the country, etc., etc. so we don't have another recession similar to this one?

[banginAltima]

Dave Ramsey's views on cash for clunkers. It can't be said a whole lot better than this.

http://video.foxbusiness.com/8157520/daves...532350ca0a76df1

Damn awesome video... Thats about as close to the truth as you can get.

[dsoccer]

The subprime lending situation was on a much more massive scale, CFC is only $3 bill. Its pretty unfair to compare the two.

People cant get loans without a good credit score. The program was nowhere near the size that he is saying it is, again $3 bill, not the trillion dollar housing market he compares it to. I don't see how a small program that went on for a month can cause a financial collapse as the housing market.

Sounds like this guy is anti-taxes too, the taxes for him and people with $250k will go to their 90s level, before Bush's tax reduction plan. But again I do not see how this guy can compare the housing market to CFC, NOWHERE NEAR the size of CFC.

[banginAltima]

Here is another thought for you people....

Back in December to February (not sure exactly when and I don't feel like looking it up) there were a few states that were trying to get congress to pass a new tax called the mileage tax (or something alone the line). Every vehicle would be taxed by the mile instead of being taxed by gallon of fuel. This so called mileage tax was to be put in place because the government wasn't getting enough money from the tax on fuel. Why wasn't the goverment making enough on the fuel tax.... because new cars get better gas mileage. So now that the CFC has been such a success the goverment is going to get even less income form the tax on fuel.

The mileage tax was shot down because the economy the in the shitter in the beginning of the year. Now that the economy has picked up some....look for this new tax in the near future.