White Lightning Posted September 18, 2013 Report Share Posted September 18, 2013 Ok ... The real reason people sound deaden their vehicles is to lower the noise floor ... Once that goal is reached, there will be no need to worry about peaks or cabin gain ... Reflections will need to be worked out with driver aiming and positioning (mainly your tweeters) ... Then once you've acquired time alignment, placement correction, and equalization capabilities ... Then we will get to the subject of stage and image ... Music will start really making since when you start establishing those goals Kenwood / HELIX / Linear Power (For The Love Of Music) / Brutal Sounds / OverKill Electric Co Questions About Sound Quality ?? Try Here ... Sound Quality, What does it REALLY mean ?? SMD SOTM Winner "White Lightning" 1997 GMT400 Chevy Silverado "The Green Dickle" 1994 GMT400 Chevy "Phantom Dually" Randal's 2007 Chevy Avalanche (we haven't named this one yet) Dylan's "Brutal" 17 Chevy Cruze RS Hatch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicks Posted October 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 Ok ... The real reason people sound deaden their vehicles is to lower the noise floor ... Once that goal is reached, there will be no need to worry about peaks or cabin gain ... Reflections will need to be worked out with driver aiming and positioning (mainly your tweeters) ... Then once you've acquired time alignment, placement correction, and equalization capabilities ... Then we will get to the subject of stage and image ... Music will start really making since when you start establishing those goals OK...........more questions. I have a Denon home audio receiver with time alignment that uses an external microphone to automatically set the time delays. Very handy to let the receiver determine the correct settings (at least initially). So, I don't see microphone inputs on any of the HU or processors with time alignment, only adjustable manual time delay settings. Adjusting the time delay for speakers that are on-axis is simple and obvious, but what about having your tweeters off-axis? Do you still measure the physical distance between the tweeter and your ears (or desired focal spot) or do you approximate a longer reflection path and use that? Or do you generally have to just start with some initial settings and just tweak away until you find the magic formula? This post sent with 100% recycled electrons. 2004 BMW M3Mechman 280A 2 - XS Power XP30001 - XS Power D375 500F of Maxwell SuperCaps (soon to be 1000F) iPadMini2Dash mounted O-scopeAudison bitOne (Remote DRC MP) Highs Amp - PPI Art A404 Hertz HSK130 (HSK165 waiting...) DC Audio DC9.0K 2- DC Audio XL12m2LEGAL - 147.3dB @ 41Hz OUTLAW - 150.2dB @ 45Hz OUTLAW - 145.7dB @ 30Hz JUNE 2014 SOTM WINNER 2014 COLORADO PEOPLE'S CHOICE WINNER SOTM BUILD:http://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/141656-wicks-e46-m3-build-bass-turbo-button-and-a-big-new-addition/page-68#entry2802026 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Lightning Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 fully ative means exact measurements from every driver to the listner's seating position ... and I mean EVERY independant driver, including your subs ... there is a mathematical formula for it ... you start with the driver furthest away from you and measure each one out until you mathematically have all drivers in time alignment with each other AND to the driver seat / listening position ... then its all about the EQ side of things ... I got counted off points in the last MECA event because my subs were not in correct time alignment with my midbass drivers ... Yes, it was my fault, I gave a demo before judging and forgot to reset back to normal judging settings ... I'm in the process learning this with my Kenwood, but I hear that each headunit / processor reads different ... Kenwood / HELIX / Linear Power (For The Love Of Music) / Brutal Sounds / OverKill Electric Co Questions About Sound Quality ?? Try Here ... Sound Quality, What does it REALLY mean ?? SMD SOTM Winner "White Lightning" 1997 GMT400 Chevy Silverado "The Green Dickle" 1994 GMT400 Chevy "Phantom Dually" Randal's 2007 Chevy Avalanche (we haven't named this one yet) Dylan's "Brutal" 17 Chevy Cruze RS Hatch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandonbkd Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 The 80prs comes with a mic for t/a FI BL18 Build Log: CLICK HERE!! 2003 Explorer Sport: FI BL18 SoundQubed 2200 at 0.7ohm Pioneer DEH-2500UI Pioneer 6 x 8s Rockford Fosgate 6 x 9s 5 ft^3 box at 35hz Lots of Mega Mat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicks Posted October 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 fully ative means exact measurements from every driver to the listner's seating position ... and I mean EVERY independant driver, including your subs ... there is a mathematical formula for it ... you start with the driver furthest away from you and measure each one out until you mathematically have all drivers in time alignment with each other AND to the driver seat / listening position ... then its all about the EQ side of things ... I got counted off points in the last MECA event because my subs were not in correct time alignment with my midbass drivers ... Yes, it was my fault, I gave a demo before judging and forgot to reset back to normal judging settings ... I'm in the process learning this with my Kenwood, but I hear that each headunit / processor reads different ... I understand the basic technique for measuring the physical distance between all drivers and the listening position in order for the processor to add the appropriate delay. Tweeters are very directional. So if you have them mounted way off-axis then I was curious if you still just measure the physical distance or whether you measure the acoustical path since the main on-axis lobe needs to reflect off of a surface(or two) of your vehicle to get back to your ears....? Or do you not care about the main on-axis lobe and only concentrate on the attenuated off-axis lobes? ...if that makes sense? Out of curiosity, why demo with the subs and midbass out of alignment? I can see tweaking the EQ settings to squeeze out some more bass for a demo, but I would figure you'd always want everything time aligned? This post sent with 100% recycled electrons. 2004 BMW M3Mechman 280A 2 - XS Power XP30001 - XS Power D375 500F of Maxwell SuperCaps (soon to be 1000F) iPadMini2Dash mounted O-scopeAudison bitOne (Remote DRC MP) Highs Amp - PPI Art A404 Hertz HSK130 (HSK165 waiting...) DC Audio DC9.0K 2- DC Audio XL12m2LEGAL - 147.3dB @ 41Hz OUTLAW - 150.2dB @ 45Hz OUTLAW - 145.7dB @ 30Hz JUNE 2014 SOTM WINNER 2014 COLORADO PEOPLE'S CHOICE WINNER SOTM BUILD:http://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/141656-wicks-e46-m3-build-bass-turbo-button-and-a-big-new-addition/page-68#entry2802026 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Lightning Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 They were close, but not really ... Time alignment in my truck puts the bass more up front and up on the dash ... Great for SQ. But kinda takes away aggression during the SPL stuff (dubstep) ... Or maybe I just don't have it set up correctly yet ... For my truck ... The outlaw bass is much more aggressive with the time alignment (subs only) turned off ... Kenwood / HELIX / Linear Power (For The Love Of Music) / Brutal Sounds / OverKill Electric Co Questions About Sound Quality ?? Try Here ... Sound Quality, What does it REALLY mean ?? SMD SOTM Winner "White Lightning" 1997 GMT400 Chevy Silverado "The Green Dickle" 1994 GMT400 Chevy "Phantom Dually" Randal's 2007 Chevy Avalanche (we haven't named this one yet) Dylan's "Brutal" 17 Chevy Cruze RS Hatch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Lightning Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 On axis ... I enjoy it Off axis ... I enjoy it ... Hard to say what I really like better I'm assuming (cause it is what was done to mine) you treat them the same and tweak and tune from there ... Kenwood / HELIX / Linear Power (For The Love Of Music) / Brutal Sounds / OverKill Electric Co Questions About Sound Quality ?? Try Here ... Sound Quality, What does it REALLY mean ?? SMD SOTM Winner "White Lightning" 1997 GMT400 Chevy Silverado "The Green Dickle" 1994 GMT400 Chevy "Phantom Dually" Randal's 2007 Chevy Avalanche (we haven't named this one yet) Dylan's "Brutal" 17 Chevy Cruze RS Hatch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicks Posted October 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 They were close, but not really ... Time alignment in my truck puts the bass more up front and up on the dash ... Great for SQ. But kinda takes away aggression during the SPL stuff (dubstep) ... Or maybe I just don't have it set up correctly yet ... For my truck ... The outlaw bass is much more aggressive with the time alignment (subs only) turned off ... Very interesting! Good to know as I'd probly demo in the same way, an SQ setup and then settings for something much more aggressive. I'll keep that in mind when I get to that point. On axis ... I enjoy it Off axis ... I enjoy it ... Hard to say what I really like better I'm assuming (cause it is what was done to mine) you treat them the same and tweak and tune from there ... Since I'm new to everything truly SQ, I thought I'd start simple and just go with an on-axis setup. When I get more experience in what to listen for, then I can integrate the speakers in an off-axis setup and get more creative. For now I'm leaning towards this: A couple small custom pods in the far corners of the windshield. Each holding an HT25 Hertz tweeter and I see that Hertz makes a 3" HL70 mid that should fit up there perfect. I was thinking about my HV130 5.25" mids but they're way too much for that location. Then the Hertz HV165 6.5" down in the bottom of the door, sealed in its own pod. I think the 3" mid would make a great transition between the tweeter and the 6.5". If they're too much, I can always attenuate them or switch them off, but it'd be nice to have them there when I want them. Then there's my ES200 8's that I'd love to integrate as well. I was intrigued by Meade saying he turns his SMD15 way down and mainly uses his 8's for SQ demos. Then turns up the SMD15 otherwise for the more aggressive demos. I know in SQ that less is more, but I'd rather have the extra drivers available and turn them off rather then wish I had them when not in SQ mode. Sooo much to think about........Hmmm This post sent with 100% recycled electrons. 2004 BMW M3Mechman 280A 2 - XS Power XP30001 - XS Power D375 500F of Maxwell SuperCaps (soon to be 1000F) iPadMini2Dash mounted O-scopeAudison bitOne (Remote DRC MP) Highs Amp - PPI Art A404 Hertz HSK130 (HSK165 waiting...) DC Audio DC9.0K 2- DC Audio XL12m2LEGAL - 147.3dB @ 41Hz OUTLAW - 150.2dB @ 45Hz OUTLAW - 145.7dB @ 30Hz JUNE 2014 SOTM WINNER 2014 COLORADO PEOPLE'S CHOICE WINNER SOTM BUILD:http://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/141656-wicks-e46-m3-build-bass-turbo-button-and-a-big-new-addition/page-68#entry2802026 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Lightning Posted October 11, 2013 Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 Since I'm new to everything truly SQ, I thought I'd start simple and just go with an on-axis setup. When I get more experience in what to listen for, then I can integrate the speakers in an off-axis setup and get more creative. From what was told to me ... the "on-axis" is the more advanced option ... once you go "on-axis" ... there will never be a need for anything "off-axis" unless you are like me and just really want to go back to a simple 5.1 setup when the 49 Ford is ready for audio ... I know in SQ that less is more, but I'd rather have the extra drivers available and turn them off rather then wish I had them when not in SQ mode. Sooo much to think about........Hmmm I am learning this now ... in very detailed and critical listening music, unused drivers that are installed in the vehicle have no so called "driver control" and has the potiential to react as a passive radiator ... please be very carefull with this, cause it can hurt you just as much as it can help you ... Even with my Sub Stage upgrade, they will be active and time aligned to prevent anything like this from happening ... and every unused driver is removed (center channel ...etc) for Critical Sound Quality judging ... I know guys, this is going a bit far here, but SPL guys do EVERYTHING they can to get that extra DB that might win them a World Title ... Well, Same way for Sound Quality when less points are counted off --- the Better the Score !!! Kenwood / HELIX / Linear Power (For The Love Of Music) / Brutal Sounds / OverKill Electric Co Questions About Sound Quality ?? Try Here ... Sound Quality, What does it REALLY mean ?? SMD SOTM Winner "White Lightning" 1997 GMT400 Chevy Silverado "The Green Dickle" 1994 GMT400 Chevy "Phantom Dually" Randal's 2007 Chevy Avalanche (we haven't named this one yet) Dylan's "Brutal" 17 Chevy Cruze RS Hatch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicks Posted October 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 Since I'm new to everything truly SQ, I thought I'd start simple and just go with an on-axis setup. When I get more experience in what to listen for, then I can integrate the speakers in an off-axis setup and get more creative. From what was told to me ... the "on-axis" is the more advanced option ...once you go "on-axis" ... there will never be a need for anything "off-axis" unless you are like me and just really want to go back to a simple 5.1 setup when the 49 Ford is ready for audio ... I know in SQ that less is more, but I'd rather have the extra drivers available and turn them off rather then wish I had them when not in SQ mode. Sooo much to think about........Hmmm I am learning this now ... in very detailed and critical listening music, unused drivers that are installed in the vehicle have no so called "driver control" and has the potiential to react as a passive radiator ... please be very carefull with this, cause it can hurt you just as much as it can help you ... Even with my Sub Stage upgrade, they will be active and time aligned to prevent anything like this from happening ... and every unused driver is removed (center channel ...etc) for Critical Sound Quality judging ...I know guys, this is going a bit far here, but SPL guys do EVERYTHING they can to get that extra DB that might win them a World Title ... Well, Same way for Sound Quality when less points are counted off --- the Better the Score !!! On-axis is more advanced...? I would have thought fighting the off-axis reflections would be more difficult... I am quickly seeing why SQ is so complicated. The main need for off-axis that I was thinking of would be a more stealth install (don't have a set of speakers aimed right at you). SHIT.......... That had come to mind, that unused drivers could cause a passive radiator situation and cause issues. Fantastic point. Makes sense, you can't REALLY have it both ways. SQ vs SPL. Thanks for all the advice Randal. I'm going to have to take all that into account, dive in and see what I can do. This post sent with 100% recycled electrons. 2004 BMW M3Mechman 280A 2 - XS Power XP30001 - XS Power D375 500F of Maxwell SuperCaps (soon to be 1000F) iPadMini2Dash mounted O-scopeAudison bitOne (Remote DRC MP) Highs Amp - PPI Art A404 Hertz HSK130 (HSK165 waiting...) DC Audio DC9.0K 2- DC Audio XL12m2LEGAL - 147.3dB @ 41Hz OUTLAW - 150.2dB @ 45Hz OUTLAW - 145.7dB @ 30Hz JUNE 2014 SOTM WINNER 2014 COLORADO PEOPLE'S CHOICE WINNER SOTM BUILD:http://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/141656-wicks-e46-m3-build-bass-turbo-button-and-a-big-new-addition/page-68#entry2802026 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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