TaylorFade Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 My power supply is capable of 320A at 14V continuous. It has surge capacity of over 500A, so that's why I was able to get over 7k on the dynamic tests and only 2600-2880 in the certified runs. I had my clamp meter on the main B+ wire going to the amp and it pegged over 350A during the certified tests. I'm not certain the amp gave up, I think the power supply ran out of current (even though the voltage was still showing 13.3). As I've stated before the certified and uncertified tests are brutal on an amp and unless you play music with extremely long bass notes, it's not representative of the "music" output. For the type of music I listen to, I like to take an average of the certified and dynamic, but that's just me. You mentioned the certified runs pegged the DC current clamp. What did it do on the dynamic test? Did it even register? What sort of musical sound is representative of the dynamic mode's measurement? Do you honestly consider .5 resistive "representative of music" output"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillistonAudioLabs Posted March 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 My power supply is capable of 320A at 14V continuous. It has surge capacity of over 500A, so that's why I was able to get over 7k on the dynamic tests and only 2600-2880 in the certified runs. I had my clamp meter on the main B+ wire going to the amp and it pegged over 350A during the certified tests. I'm not certain the amp gave up, I think the power supply ran out of current (even though the voltage was still showing 13.3). As I've stated before the certified and uncertified tests are brutal on an amp and unless you play music with extremely long bass notes, it's not representative of the "music" output. For the type of music I listen to, I like to take an average of the certified and dynamic, but that's just me. You mentioned the certified runs pegged the DC current clamp. What did it do on the dynamic test? Did it even register? What sort of musical sound is representative of the dynamic mode's measurement? Do you honestly consider .5 resistive "representative of music" output"? My power supply has (4) internal 1Farad caps and has the ability to deliver bursts of current for short periods of time, thus the ability to supply the current needed for the 7k dynamic run. The certified/uncert 1 ohm runs pegged the power supply, not the clamp. These runs hit up to 350A on the DC clamp meter. My clamp meter (Klein Tools CL2000) does not register fast enough to measure the dynamic tests. I've talked to CJ at DroppinHz and he says his Fluke he uses is fast enough to measure the dynamic tests. Only issue is if you set the meter to "max hold", you are not getting a representative number relative to the output....you are just getting the "max" current (I use 2 cameras during my cert/uncert tests and "sync" the resulting amp dyno time stamp for the measurement and clamp meter measurement). The issue with max hold is the amp will always pull more current after it reaches clipping. The AD-1 manual, Steve and Tony D are where I got the info about the dynamic mode's representation of music playback. I have no way of verifying this as I'm not an amplifier engineer. Tony D was the lead engineer at RF for many years, and I think he has more credentials than most of us here... See my videos on YouTube http://www.willistonaudio.com Many tests and demos of OLD and NEW SCHOOL car audio gear! See cool pics on Instagram @oldschoolstereo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pro7 Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 I think TFade was mainly pointing out that an amplifier will rarely see .5 ohms resistive. I really appreciate the tests and effort that goes toward getting legit info out there I've gotten a blowjob and picked up my iphone behind her back to see what email notification I got from smd before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorFade Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 My power supply is capable of 320A at 14V continuous. It has surge capacity of over 500A, so that's why I was able to get over 7k on the dynamic tests and only 2600-2880 in the certified runs. I had my clamp meter on the main B+ wire going to the amp and it pegged over 350A during the certified tests. I'm not certain the amp gave up, I think the power supply ran out of current (even though the voltage was still showing 13.3). As I've stated before the certified and uncertified tests are brutal on an amp and unless you play music with extremely long bass notes, it's not representative of the "music" output. For the type of music I listen to, I like to take an average of the certified and dynamic, but that's just me. You mentioned the certified runs pegged the DC current clamp. What did it do on the dynamic test? Did it even register? What sort of musical sound is representative of the dynamic mode's measurement? Do you honestly consider .5 resistive "representative of music" output"? My power supply has (4) internal 1Farad caps and has the ability to deliver bursts of current for short periods of time, thus the ability to supply the current needed for the 7k dynamic run. The certified/uncert 1 ohm runs pegged the power supply, not the clamp. These runs hit up to 350A on the DC clamp meter. My clamp meter (Klein Tools CL2000) does not register fast enough to measure the dynamic tests. I've talked to CJ at DroppinHz and he says his Fluke he uses is fast enough to measure the dynamic tests. Only issue is if you set the meter to "max hold", you are not getting a representative number relative to the output....you are just getting the "max" current (I use 2 cameras during my cert/uncert tests and "sync" the resulting amp dyno time stamp for the measurement and clamp meter measurement). The issue with max hold is the amp will always pull more current after it reaches clipping. The AD-1 manual, Steve and Tony D are where I got the info about the dynamic mode's representation of music playback. I have no way of verifying this as I'm not an amplifier engineer. Tony D was the lead engineer at RF for many years, and I think he has more credentials than most of us here... (4) 1F caps is less than 400 Joules (at 14v and not even considering operating voltage). Which, for future reference, is about enough to support ~ 13,000w in "dynamic" mode. Lmao. That's interesting to note. I've spoken with CJ also. Funny that he told me that his meter wasn't fast enough. And has even posted saying that. I understand the peak/hold "problem" with measuring current draw while on an AD-1. It's caused quite a bit of misinformation and skewed results. I am also aware of Tony's credentials. I am not questioning them. I am questioning the validity of dynamic results. Or even their relevance other than to sensationalize output. It's a parlor trick at best and at worst... no better than a tradtional clamp that Tony, Steve and this entire board fight so dillignently to educate and advise against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorFade Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 My power supply is capable of 320A at 14V continuous. It has surge capacity of over 500A, so that's why I was able to get over 7k on the dynamic tests and only 2600-2880 in the certified runs. I had my clamp meter on the main B+ wire going to the amp and it pegged over 350A during the certified tests. I'm not certain the amp gave up, I think the power supply ran out of current (even though the voltage was still showing 13.3). As I've stated before the certified and uncertified tests are brutal on an amp and unless you play music with extremely long bass notes, it's not representative of the "music" output. For the type of music I listen to, I like to take an average of the certified and dynamic, but that's just me. You mentioned the certified runs pegged the DC current clamp. What did it do on the dynamic test? Did it even register? What sort of musical sound is representative of the dynamic mode's measurement? Do you honestly consider .5 resistive "representative of music" output"? My power supply has (4) internal 1Farad caps and has the ability to deliver bursts of current for short periods of time, thus the ability to supply the current needed for the 7k dynamic run. The certified/uncert 1 ohm runs pegged the power supply, not the clamp. These runs hit up to 350A on the DC clamp meter. My clamp meter (Klein Tools CL2000) does not register fast enough to measure the dynamic tests. I've talked to CJ at DroppinHz and he says his Fluke he uses is fast enough to measure the dynamic tests. Only issue is if you set the meter to "max hold", you are not getting a representative number relative to the output....you are just getting the "max" current (I use 2 cameras during my cert/uncert tests and "sync" the resulting amp dyno time stamp for the measurement and clamp meter measurement). The issue with max hold is the amp will always pull more current after it reaches clipping. The AD-1 manual, Steve and Tony D are where I got the info about the dynamic mode's representation of music playback. I have no way of verifying this as I'm not an amplifier engineer. Tony D was the lead engineer at RF for many years, and I think he has more credentials than most of us here... (4) 1F caps is less than 400 Joules (at 14v and not even considering operating voltage). Which, for future reference, is about enough to support ~ 13,000w in "dynamic" mode. Lmao. That's interesting to note. I've spoken with CJ also. Funny that he told me that his meter wasn't fast enough. And has even posted saying that. I understand the peak/hold "problem" with measuring current draw while on an AD-1. It's caused quite a bit of misinformation and skewed results. I am also aware of Tony's credentials. I am not questioning them. I am questioning the validity of dynamic results. Or even their relevance other than to sensationalize output. It's a parlor trick at best and at worst... no better than a tradtional clamp that Tony, Steve and this entire board fight so dillignently to educate and advise against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillistonAudioLabs Posted March 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 I've spoken with CJ also. Funny that he told me that his meter wasn't fast enough. And has even posted saying that. See my videos on YouTube http://www.willistonaudio.com Many tests and demos of OLD and NEW SCHOOL car audio gear! See cool pics on Instagram @oldschoolstereo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillistonAudioLabs Posted March 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Also, for reference...the Dynamic mode on the AD-1 when used with a 1kHz test tone (obviously useless for Class D sub amps) adheres to the IHF-202 certification for "Dynamic power" (at 14.4V)...a standard used for many years for amplifier manufacturers. There is no such standard for 40Hz tests, but from what I've heard, it's in the works... It seems every time I post an amp test there is something said about the dynamic runs. As I've stated before, I've tested a few dozen amps on my AD-1 and they don't all do incredible power in the dynamic mode. This is why the tests with the incredible dynamic runs are exciting...from my tests, it's not the norm. Even Steve has tested DC and other high end brands and the dynamic results haven't been as impressive as this amp (not total power, but relative to the certified runs). See my videos on YouTube http://www.willistonaudio.com Many tests and demos of OLD and NEW SCHOOL car audio gear! See cool pics on Instagram @oldschoolstereo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorFade Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Also, for reference...the Dynamic mode on the AD-1 when used with a 1kHz test tone (obviously useless for Class D sub amps) adheres to the IHF-202 certification for "Dynamic power" (at 14.4V)...a standard used for many years for amplifier manufacturers. There is no such standard for 40Hz tests, but from what I've heard, it's in the works... It seems every time I post an amp test there is something said about the dynamic runs. As I've stated before, I've tested a few dozen amps on my AD-1 and they don't all do incredible power in the dynamic mode. This is why the tests with the incredible dynamic runs are exciting...from my tests, it's not the norm. Even Steve has tested DC and other high end brands and the dynamic results haven't been as impressive as this amp (not total power, but relative to the certified runs). I'm aware that the dynamic mode is the same standard used by CEA to certify "max" power. The same standard that's brought us gems like Boss and Power Acoustik "5,000w" amps. I'm sure Sonido is just champing at the bit to get "7,000w max power" plastered all over the thing now. I've got love for you, BigD. And I hope you realize that I'm not "hating". I'm just trying to better the community. As are you. There's no harm in hashing it out. I appreciate your time and the testing you do. Even if I don't agree with the use of the results. I conduct my "dynamic" testing with a termlab. It's not exactly a perfect analog for ears, but it can tell you empirically which amp is louder. And I have a VERY difficult time believing that this amp is louder than the likes of a DC 3.5k. Although, I don't recall the .5 dynamic results of the DC3.5. It's been said that the dynamic mode simulates music and is an indication of an amp's "headroom". Yet... does dynamic mode take distortion or clipping into account? If not... the use of said headroom may sound like complete ass. And isn't that what these things are used for? Listening to music? Although... it wold only be ~ 20-100ms of ass. So whatever. I am an amp snob, but I don't fool myself into thinking a clean watt of Critical Mass *sounds* any better than a clean watt of Sonido Mask, but it's the cleanliness and the amount thereof that's in question. I would like to think that the vast majority of people would realize how crazy .5 resistive is and how ridiculously unlikely it is that that reactive would ever be seen. Ever. But the truth is, many people still don't understand the difference between resistive and reactive or understand "rise" and might think that 7k is what they will see if they wire to .5. My vehemence against it is only to illustrate that fact. Not to villify you for including it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEvil Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 I dont mind if an amp has large dynamic output, as long as it does rated (although technically all rated results are into a resistive load not a reactive one so what we need is a reactive test). Thanks for the Dyno work, BigD. You should toss some home and pro audio amps on the Dyno Wish I could ship you my Warhorse and Fusion FCA-4000D to play with haha. MickyMcD - "Capable of making some serious trouser flapping volumes at where's-my-testicles frequencies, the Servo-Drives used to be fairly jaw dropping..." Any time you have have a power wire next to your frame put some rubber hosing (or cut up an innertube) around it. The wire is bound to wiggle (due to driving or flex) and the casing will eventually wear through. Hammerdown... 1% no links to outside websites, business related FB/YT pages allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillistonAudioLabs Posted March 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 I'm not sure the IHF-202 and "max" power ratings are the same. I think some manufacturers calculate the possible wattage output (max) when the amp is struck by lightning. No names needed, you know who they are. I know Steve tested one of these amps and it didn't even do half of it's "max" output, even in the dynamic mode. The Dynamic mode on the AD-1 does take into account clipping (RMS). People see the tests and say "that amp was clipping the entire time". The red lights on the AD-1 represent 1% THD, not clipping STEvil, I plan to test home and pro amps also...maybe even some head units! Wonder if my Alpine V-Drive CDA-9815 will do 300W "dynamically"? See my videos on YouTube http://www.willistonaudio.com Many tests and demos of OLD and NEW SCHOOL car audio gear! See cool pics on Instagram @oldschoolstereo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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