Ok, help me pick: On Axis or Off Axis (fiberglass dash pods)

[Colin - STAPUFT]

Aw, it's not thaaaat bad. I will just have HUGE blind spots on either side- that's all. haha

Parking is easy with an Astro- there is literally NO front end. Pull up as close as you dare to whatever is in front of you, then pull up another foot and still have half a foot left.

[ALPINE408]

Tuned in to see how it comes out

I do not envy you and all the sanding you have

[ALPINE408]

I suggest that you fiberglass anput deadner on the plastic funnels.... You are basically making a horn and every car audio horn I have seen has been wrapped in deadner event the thick metal ones I have a feeling you are going to need it

[Colin - STAPUFT]

I suggest that you fiberglass anput deadner on the plastic funnels.... You are basically making a horn and every car audio horn I have seen has been wrapped in deadner event the thick metal ones I have a feeling you are going to need it

Yes sir, excellent suggestion and I'm already there.

The one on the driver's side is inside the enclosure and has several layers of resin and fiberglass around it. It is strong.

The one on the passenger's side is all outside of the enclosure. As of right now, I'm not totally sure *if* and if I do, How to make an enclosure for the horn on that side (angles are crazy). Either way, on that one the 4"s won't be putting any pressure on the proprietary wave guide system (plastic funnel).

I may make a grill that fits right on the lip of them as well.

I haven't even begun to bondo these yet, and they are really solid. Nothing moves or flexes when pushing on them anywhere. And the tap test helped me with deciding on exactly where to put additional internal bracing. I may also get some non drying modeling clay and put inside the enclosures... but eh- jury is out on that one.

Driver's:

Passenger's

^ pictures of internal bracing. There's more resin and fiberglass on them and in them now- much more.

-but on the passenger's side you can see how the *ahem* proprietary wave guide system has no enclosure for the outer part. I really think I need to remedy that.

Hopefully I will get some more done on them in the next few days. It has been slow going. I just thought I was busy before- now work is 5x as crazy, and with family duties- I'm lucky to get 30 minutes here and 30 minutes there to work on them. No sooner that I get started I have to start cleaning up.

[SQHemi]

something like this ? not your car but

I think you guys have missed the most important detail of why this worked and was successful when it was competing. Now its just our shop truck lol. The mid and tweet are staggered for a passive time alignment but most importantly it is parallel with the windshield. The reflections are going to be there no matter what but this arrangement the reflections added smaller amounts of constructive interference over a wider bandwidth, with the least amount of comb filtering +2.1db from 400hz to 4.5k versus when we have them firing directly in the glass which resulted in a +13db spike from 1.6k to 4.5k with major comb filtering.

Direct on axis sounds the best, has the least windshield reflection and results in the most detailed sound-stage. Also takes up the most room is the hardest to get right. So there is no free lunch.

[audiofanaticz]

those dayton capacitors are not to shabby for the few bucks they cost, compared to some very expensive, they seem to get the job done nicely.

[Colin - STAPUFT]

Thanks on the info SQhemi. I did notice the depth of the tweeters vs mids, but hadn't noticed (or known why) they were run parallel to the glass. Makes sense. That's the pain of it- that the peaks aren't across the entire usable range of the driver, but at specific frequencies AND dependent on angle. So one side could easily have more gain or loss than the other... and at different frequencies. (hence my planned -but minimal- use of a bit of a band aid with an EQ for each tweeter and set of mids). And you are right on making on-axis with the tweeters being a bugger to get right. These are close but they look CRAZY. haha.

those dayton capacitors are not to shabby for the few bucks they cost, compared to some very expensive, they seem to get the job done nicely.

Right on- I figured I would give them a try and was surprised... especially over the other crossovers I was using. I wanted to try the AudioCap Film/Foil caps only, but I couldn't make myself spend $50 per cap. ...like ever.

[ALPINE408]

something like this ? not your car but

I think you guys have missed the most important detail of why this worked and was successful when it was competing. Now its just our shop truck lol. The mid and tweet are staggered for a passive time alignment but most importantly it is parallel with the windshield. The reflections are going to be there no matter what but this arrangement the reflections added smaller amounts of constructive interference over a wider bandwidth, with the least amount of comb filtering +2.1db from 400hz to 4.5k versus when we have them firing directly in the glass which resulted in a +13db spike from 1.6k to 4.5k with major comb filtering.

Direct on axis sounds the best, has the least windshield reflection and results in the most detailed sound-stage. Also takes up the most room is the hardest to get right. So there is no free lunch.

SQhemi.......... in a non disrespectful way who are you??? shop truck you mean the grey one...i thought that was Vince's daughters? anywho ive been working on my car should see you guys at the next sq only show........... alpine says hi to all the audio experts crew

[jroo]

have you tried to make temp pods before putting in all the fiberglass work? So sq guys pull off drivers firing into a windshield, but a whole bunch of tuning goes into it. Most will say any driver firing up to a windshield causes issues. Also, on the dual mid set up dont many say stay away from it? Especially in a array, they say go mid, tweet, mid if you are going to do it. Either way what you are doing can work with a lot of trial and error and tuning. That way I say do some temp and get the sound you like then make it a permanent set up.

[Colin - STAPUFT]

have you tried to make temp pods before putting in all the fiberglass work? So sq guys pull off drivers firing into a windshield, but a whole bunch of tuning goes into it. Most will say any driver firing up to a windshield causes issues. Also, on the dual mid set up dont many say stay away from it? Especially in a array, they say go mid, tweet, mid if you are going to do it. Either way what you are doing can work with a lot of trial and error and tuning. That way I say do some temp and get the sound you like then make it a permanent set up.

Oh, Agreed. -And I did do a good bit of testing and listening, I just didn't post it all here.

I do have a MTM setup in my work mule, and you can't localize the tweeters from the mids at all (because they are so close and the tweets are so small- 3/4"). I tried that here, but it made the box too wide and was jacking with my angles.

And I know it could and probably should have been done with a single mid on each side, but I couldn't suppress the need for more speakers.

I'm mostly done now. Internal volumes are matched up on left and right. I would have liked to have gotten even more stage width and depth, but size of the speakers and baffle space (especially on the driver's side) kept me from getting the speakers any further out or the baffle angled back any more.

Imaging is much much better. The wife even agreed because she just sat there, very quiet- listening. After a bit, the first thing she said was "Yep, definitely don't need the center channel!"

With just a bit of roughed in Time Alignment, the left and right are on... well, the Left and Right and vocals come in on center (or just left or right of center, however it was recorded). I still have a good bit of tuning to go to get things nailed down more.

^ Shows how little room there is to work with. That's as far out and angled as I could get the baffle. Any more either way and the mid would hit the dash trim piece or the back of the speaker would hit the glass.

Working on a vid...