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1 amp for front speakers?


Liljxthexripper
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so i was looking at this 
https://www.ctsounds.com/products/ct-150-4d

my main question is, from my 2020 kia soul stock headunit, would my rears get different signal in terms of frequencies than my front? i currently have 2 sundown sa 6.5 coaxial version 1 in the rear doors (might change them out but ill see how the sound handles once they get amped) , and just installed audio legion neo mids in the front doors at 8 ohms each, then going to use the audio legion 1 inch high comp tweeters for the air vent that are 4 ohms. but if the rears would pull more mid i need to wire everything so the mids get rear frequencies probably and tweeters and rears actually get full range front. i know the power is cut for the rear speakers from the headunit but with an appropriate amp i can set gains to match front and rear volume for my own listening pleasure.

i want full range for the rears, but my mids and tweets seperated. does that mean i need to put the sundowns and tweets on the front one speaker and tweet per channel, then i can bridge the neos since they are 8 ohms to bring the load to 2 ohms for max power and get the good mids? i say i want 100 per tweet because i dont need them absolutely screaming because i want the rear fill for a decent surround sound but the neos are definitely mad already even on the stock headunit, so thatll provide more than plenty mid to finish it up with my 2 sa 12s in the back.

they are duals 2 ohms wired to 4 to bring 2 ohms at the amp so they could handle full power but for the most part ill be using the knob to get a powerful clean sound from the bass to equalize with the sound up front. i see mad builds with tons of speakers, but to be honest for the power of these speakers i think this would be all i really need. 

looking for probably the best cheapest 4 channel amp at around 250ish rms at 2 ohms so when i equalize front and back volumes from the headunit with the gains from the amp (ill be turning down the front so the neos will be seeing about 125 rms which would be fine and the sundown and tweets will be about 100 rms per speaker respectively) (supposedly the sundowns are rated at 50 rms per speaker but that should be conservative, hopefully . if i got one such at this with crossovers etc would i even need something like the lc7?

i still have the stock alternator because i cant find anybody appropriate that wants to work on it with the voltage regulator (because i was told i should get it, to bypass the stock of 12.8v or less and set it to 14 constant... which i can tell in the music when idling the power difference when revving and not) but i also dont have a super cap or extra battery for the rear yet either so ive set the gain to output only 1k watts. just trying to set up the front first before figuring out how i need to wire everything overall

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So, you have the stock head unit? 

How would you integrate that amp without some sort of line out converter? I might be missing something, but from what I see, I think you absolutely need an LOC, or DSP with a high level input.

Using that amp with 6 total speakers, it wouldn't work unless you had some sort of passive crossover for the 6.5's and the tweeters up front. You set the rear coaxils to full, and they protect themselves using small capacitors attached to the speaker. But you wouldn't be able to differentiate crossovers between the front 6.5's and the tweeters up front. 

I would recommend a 6 channel, or a DSP.

Edited by Dafaseles

2011 Chevy Silverado under construction

My build log here. Check it out! 

 

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7 hours ago, Dafaseles said:

So, you have the stock head unit? 

How would you integrate that amp without some sort of line out converter? I might be missing something, but from what I see, I think you absolutely need an LOC, or DSP with a high level input.

Using that amp with 6 total speakers, it wouldn't work unless you had some sort of passive crossover for the 6.5's and the tweeters up front. You set the rear coaxils to full, and they protect themselves using small capacitors attached to the speaker. But you wouldn't be able to differentiate crossovers between the front 6.5's and the tweeters up front. 

I would recommend a 6 channel, or a DSP.


yes stock head unit for all the features and not messing with trading it out with the 3 different complete harnesses of almost 10 or more wires per behind it. also no factory sub output so i have a kicker loc for the subs for the moment. but the tweeters themselves have big caps as well supposedly to work as a crossover to stop the low freq? it seems all car audio sites or systems including the dayton dsp i looked at in regards to your response dont ever seem to know how to format media to be easily visible on webpages. https://www.amazon.com/Audio-Legion-Compression-Bullet-Tweeters/dp/B084R89M9 

but thats why i was asking what the rear signals do typicaly with headunits. if it doesnt go into high frequencies that are above the response of these https://www.rhynoaudioworks.com/products/audio-legion-mg6-neo-pro , i wouldnt be worried about crossover for it. although to think about it i think the only actual tweets are in the dash, the doors are straight paper cones but dont have an extra tweeter so they have to be mids right and the head unit sending signals appropriate for mid speakers. 

so im thinking of using the rear signals to put to the mids straight up, coaxials will handle the front signals. and tweeters direct replace. i figured it would all come from the headunit into the amp and the signal there would be amplified and sound better.. being that the headunit sends lower power signals when trying to turn that up without the power causes the distortion at higher volumes? didnt think there would actually be anything unclean about the signal itself from the headunit

see im new about all the loc/dsp thing. the main thing i dont get is how the wires will be converted from the headunit to rca, then to the dsp, then to the amp as rca, and then output to the speakers.. but if i get the guidance on it ill compile what i need and take it to an appropriate audio shop cause i want it done right for my new car

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So, if I understand your question correctly, typically, a head unit will just send a "full signal" to the speakers (not too low as to damage the speakers, but not to high either as to start beaming). If there are a pair of tweeters up front, that will get a crossed over signal to to the higher hz. As to what the crossover is exactly is anyone's guess. 

You can use an LOC to integrate into the factory system the same as you've done with the subwoofers. If you didn't get that signal from a dedicated subwoofer frequency, you're already getting a full signal into those RCA's. You can just use a spliter or RCA distribution block to get a set of RCA's for the 4 channel. Or, you can ditch the cheap LOC and get a DSP with a high level input (that's the factory integration same as an LOC). Then RCA's out of that and into the correct amplifier. The DSP will handle all the crossovers and other settings before it even gets to the amplifier, though you would still need 2 channels for the front speakers, 2 channels for the rear speakers, and 2 channels for the tweeters coming from the amplifiers. 

I hope that helps answer your question. 

2011 Chevy Silverado under construction

My build log here. Check it out! 

 

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7 minutes ago, Dafaseles said:

So, if I understand your question correctly, typically, a head unit will just send a "full signal" to the speakers (not too low as to damage the speakers, but not to high either as to start beaming). If there are a pair of tweeters up front, that will get a crossed over signal to to the higher hz. As to what the crossover is exactly is anyone's guess. 

You can use an LOC to integrate into the factory system the same as you've done with the subwoofers. If you didn't get that signal from a dedicated subwoofer frequency, you're already getting a full signal into those RCA's. You can just use a spliter or RCA distribution block to get a set of RCA's for the 4 channel. Or, you can ditch the cheap LOC and get a DSP with a high level input (that's the factory integration same as an LOC). Then RCA's out of that and into the correct amplifier. The DSP will handle all the crossovers and other settings before it even gets to the amplifier, though you would still need 2 channels for the front speakers, 2 channels for the rear speakers, and 2 channels for the tweeters coming from the amplifiers. 

I hope that helps answer your question. 

well that was my main question i guess is if the signal is typically limited like using a crossover to the speakers (tweets, and doors seperately) from a stock headunit to speakers or like with the equalization they wouldnt really care and just full send but equalize it to where the speakers wont blow.

i think that will be the end game route anyways so might as well go ahead and do it. any specific rcas that you know of that are well insulated and send clean signal but affordable to buy in such quantity?

and so with having the dsp, i wont need a crazy amp that handles the crossovers, just a 3-4 channel amp really so i can wire the speakers together into each channel or does each speaker have its own channel from the dsp? and the reason for splitting the channels despite being able to hook them up and bring ohm load down to provide the power is simply to not cross the signal coming from the dsp that i am controlling the frequencies? 

any recommended videos on learning about a dsp specifically? ive been so busy i havent really had a chance to take a look at things, and my mom is sick today on christmas so been trying to help her out. sorry for the confusion and questioning.

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On 12/25/2021 at 7:05 PM, Dafaseles said:

Check these videos out when you get a chance

 


i appreciate the info. that actually makes thinking about all this more manageable. i think the lc7i is plenty enough because of the price point of the dsp right now. is the basic point of the loc to send better signal to the speakers? with the dsp able to set crossovers etc using an application, as its considered a DIGITAL signal processor. ?

it looks decently easy, as long as i know my harness i just tap into the regular speaker wire, i dont have to cut them because the circuits will be complete through the loc end so i dont even have to worry about the rest of the wire messing with the signal?

i just cant for the life of me find a decent 6 channel amp that doesnt have a sub channel and/or provides an actual rms over 100watts at 4 ohms. i was even looking for 8 channels doing 100+ rms at 4 ohms that i can bridge the channels for my 8 ohm neos but i just dont think im looking right.

https://www.newegg.com/p/0FB-00DX-00073?item=9SIB0KDFMC8621&nm_mc=knc-googleadwords&cm_mmc=knc-googleadwords-_-at - car electronics accessories-_-rand mcnally-_-9SIB0KDFMC8621&source=region

found that maybe

Edited by Liljxthexripper
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So, the purpose of a LOC (line out converter) is to provide you with a way to integrate aftermarket "low level" signals (RCA's) into a stock system (high level input). So you can use your aftermarket amplifier with RCA inputs. 

Some DSP's and amplifiers have high level inputs already integrated into the design, such as Kicker Key Amplifiers, the Audio Control lc-6.1200, or the Audio Control DM-810 DSP. There are others, these are just what comes to mind. In which case, you wouldn't need an LOC, because you would integrate into the factory setup through that. 

I'm sorry dude, but that Lanzar amp does not do anywhere close to what it's claiming. A simple way to tell is the fuses. 3 25a fuses. The math isn't 100% concrete, but it'll get you in the ballpark- take the total fusing and multiply it by 10. That's usually close to the actual power output. So, maybe 750 total watts. Take the lc-6.1200 for example. Audio Control is known for doing pretty much exactly the rated power. Maybe a little more, but usually pretty damn dead on. That particular amp has 3 40a fuses. 120×10=1,200.

When searching for a 6 channel, don't get caught up on the "sub channel", which is usually channels 5 & 6. If you look at the high pass and low pass filters for those channels, it's usually 20 hz - 200 hz. Which is perfect for mid bass speakers. 

 

 

EDIT- I just remembered that you want a 6 channel for a 2 way front, and coaxils in the back. Not a 3 way setup lol. Sorry about that. 

Let me poke around and see if I can find a decent 6 channel with 6 full range channels, or at least 2 channels for tweeters. 

Refresh my memory... what speakers do you have in the front doors, what tweeters do you have in the front? And you're running just a set of Sundown 6.5" coaxils in the back doors?

Edited by Dafaseles

2011 Chevy Silverado under construction

My build log here. Check it out! 

 

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30 minutes ago, Dafaseles said:

So, the purpose of a LOC (line out converter) is to provide you with a way to integrate aftermarket "low level" signals (RCA's) into a stock system (high level input). So you can use your aftermarket amplifier with RCA inputs. 

Some DSP's and amplifiers have high level inputs already integrated into the design, such as Kicker Key Amplifiers, the Audio Control lc-6.1200, or the Audio Control DM-810 DSP. There are others, these are just what comes to mind. In which case, you wouldn't need an LOC, because you would integrate into the factory setup through that. 

I'm sorry dude, but that Lanzar amp does not do anywhere close to what it's claiming. A simple way to tell is the fuses. 3 25a fuses. The math isn't 100% concrete, but it'll get you in the ballpark- take the total fusing and multiply it by 10. That's usually close to the actual power output. So, maybe 750 total watts. Take the lc-6.1200 for example. Audio Control is known for doing pretty much exactly the rated power. Maybe a little more, but usually pretty damn dead on. That particular amp has 3 40a fuses. 120×10=1,200.

When searching for a 6 channel, don't get caught up on the "sub channel", which is usually channels 5 & 6. If you look at the high pass and low pass filters for those channels, it's usually 20 hz - 200 hz. Which is perfect for mid bass speakers. 

i didnt look at the fuse rating on that. although i do know most amps dont even do close to rated, i figured it would be more than enough for 100 per channel at 4 ohms. 

although say if i did something like this

https://www.audiocontrol.com/car-audio/power-amplifiers/lc-61200/

i wouldnt have to worry about rcas, i just wire the speakers from the headunit into the input, send them back out through the channels, but i could use it as an output for my rcas to replace my cheap kicker loc for my sia3500, using the sub output on the amp itself and it will still provide better signal? so its effectively a truly all in one plug and play set up

lol thats even the amp you were talking about. hell of a tag but i could save up to have something legit, and all in one

Edited by Liljxthexripper
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31 minutes ago, Dafaseles said:

So, the purpose of a LOC (line out converter) is to provide you with a way to integrate aftermarket "low level" signals (RCA's) into a stock system (high level input). So you can use your aftermarket amplifier with RCA inputs. 

Some DSP's and amplifiers have high level inputs already integrated into the design, such as Kicker Key Amplifiers, the Audio Control lc-6.1200, or the Audio Control DM-810 DSP. There are others, these are just what comes to mind. In which case, you wouldn't need an LOC, because you would integrate into the factory setup through that. 

I'm sorry dude, but that Lanzar amp does not do anywhere close to what it's claiming. A simple way to tell is the fuses. 3 25a fuses. The math isn't 100% concrete, but it'll get you in the ballpark- take the total fusing and multiply it by 10. That's usually close to the actual power output. So, maybe 750 total watts. Take the lc-6.1200 for example. Audio Control is known for doing pretty much exactly the rated power. Maybe a little more, but usually pretty damn dead on. That particular amp has 3 40a fuses. 120×10=1,200.

When searching for a 6 channel, don't get caught up on the "sub channel", which is usually channels 5 & 6. If you look at the high pass and low pass filters for those channels, it's usually 20 hz - 200 hz. Which is perfect for mid bass speakers. 

 

 

EDIT- I just remembered that you want a 6 channel for a 2 way front, and coaxils in the back. Not a 3 way setup lol. Sorry about that. 

Let me poke around and see if I can find a decent 6 channel with 6 full range channels, or at least 2 channels for tweeters. 

Refresh my memory... what speakers do you have in the front doors, what tweeters do you have in the front? And you're running just a set of Sundown 6.5" coaxils in the back doors?

dont have them in yet but i have these for tweets going to replace the air vent tweets, they do have caps, not sure if ill need to remove them with an appropriate amp and set crossovers
https://www.google.com/shopping/product/6954223985587326798?q=audio+legion+6.5+neo+mid&biw=1920&bih=937&dpr=2&prds=eto:5782601333712829405_0&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjBk5z8m4X1AhXaSTABHcCDDXcQ8wIIzRA
i also have the 6.5 inch neo mids from them but not the slims, rated 100 rms each

and i do have the sundown sa coaxials v1 in the back rated at 50 rms

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