Time Allignment/delay Goals And Achievment Discussion

[Megalomaniac]

I want to hear the SMD perspective on this topic:

1. Do you use it?

2. Do you care for it;(Do feel it is needed)?

3. What's your method(s); your actual process into implementing time alignment?

4. Any thing to be done before you start the T/A process?

5. What are you trying to achieve(goals) with T/A?

6. Post any other thoughts you may have with this discussion.

Edited December 21, 2008 by Megalomaniac

[Decaf]

I want to hear the SMD perspective on this topic:

1. Do you use it?yes

2. Do you care for it;(Do feel it is needed)?hell yeah

3. What's your method(s); your actual process into implementing time alignment? i measure from each ear... so take tape measuring from normal resting position of head while driving to the speaker being aligned... (I have a jvc-shx850 so it has dta, and 3-way crossover, 24bit burr brown) In my case it comes to 48" and 30", when i dont have it aligned the midbass doesnt sound as loud since they arent percieved to hit at the same time and stereo imaging with the highs can get very vague and empty with no defined source at times without it. Keep in mind im not even using a great component set, just some infinitys

4. Any thing to be done before you start the T/A process?get some time on ur hands and a quiet place with pink noise, a good rock cd and a clear head so u can really focus on what "sounds" right, beer wont help lol

5. What are you trying to achieve(goals) with T/A?so far, ive noticed how balanced even cheap speakers can sound, and ideally im trying to have my front stage literally sound like im at a concert with discernable intruments and vocals that can be pin pointed in space in my car in front of me, without anything sounding biased to one side or the other

6. Post any other thoughts you may have with this discussion. Alpine Electronics... u make me wonder, why make people do math... just put in a simple inch and centimeter readout for 4 channels like jvc and pioneer i believe... simple... i can do math, but id rather skip it for the easier route, and more people are likely to use it if there's no math to figure out how many milliseconds to delay something... it might be a bit more accurate... but unless competing in sq... the average person cant tell an inch here or there in dta. It will always be a feature i require when looking for a headunit, unless i get a 360.2 since its included

Edited December 21, 2008 by decafcappucino

[BAGGEDBIRDS.com]

I like the idea of TA but I have none of the capabilities with the equipment i have. Having everything set to the driver seats bugs me. I perfer it center dash. I suppose it could be set for that but for lack of processing and equipment I try my best old school, with placement and aiming. Isn't this more of a DIYMA issue? I just picked some DLS mids because of DIYMA. Darn them

[Megalomaniac]

I like the idea of TA but I have none of the capabilities with the equipment i have. Having everything set to the driver seats bugs me. I perfer it center dash. I suppose it could be set for that but for lack of processing and equipment I try my best old school, with placement and aiming. Isn't this more of a DIYMA issue? I just picked some DLS mids because of DIYMA. Darn them

You havent heard many reference cars have you?

All of them will be center on dash. When it is driver seat biased, you have to sit in driver seat to hear it come from center of dash from that seat. If you sit in passenger seat it wont sound like it at all.

Now some people prefer the singer to be coming right in front of the drivers seat, Now i have to question that. Wouldnt your stage be squished on the left channel? or does it make your left channel extend out past the cars boundaries on to the road.

Edited December 21, 2008 by Megalomaniac

[Megalomaniac]

Only fair I answer my own questions too:

1. Yes; Eclipse CD7000 allows me to t/a all 6 channels individually

2. Absolutely, your car is the worst environment for hi-fi listening pleasures; you have to manipulate everything, there is no such thing as over processed.

3. my actual method is if its in m/s ( i hate the cm and inches) I start delaying the driver side mid until the voices start coming from the windshield(rearview mirror center) then I start delaying the driver tweeter for finishing touches, they say you cant hear a tweeter move, but if you are crossed below 8khz you can hear it ( "they" are the people that are running 4way so that figures)

4. Imaging and phasing with your mids and highs if you can, play with different positioning to hear what sounds best, this natural step will put you leaps and beyond before any processing can fix it.

5. Fixes separation of the mids and highs, drivers will sound more "united" and plays in "harmony", a more sense of a stage will appear(acoustically of course); for the sub i just play with phase, I dont mess with t/a on that channel.

6. I could talk about this subject for quite a bit

[Decaf]

You havent heard many reference cars have you?

All of them will be center on dash. When it is driver seat biased, you have to sit in driver seat to hear it come from center of dash from that seat. If you sit in passenger seat it wont sound like it at all.

Now some people prefer the singer to be coming right in front of the drivers seat, Now i have to question that. Wouldnt your stage be squished on the left channel? or does it make your left channel extend out past the cars boundaries on to the road.

to be honest tho about the cm and in, i dont actually use the real distance, both are slightly off to what sounded better, so its a good starting point. i start with in, then switch to cm to fine tune a bit more

ive heard 2 sq cars.. not much... but i got an idea... in drivers seat

i prefer using the drivers seat instead of the dash because i dont give a chit about the passanger... and there rarely is one

i dont know alot of whats going on during the processing, but by ear, it simply sounds like delaying really aligns the notes to meet at the same point... the whole staging and where the sounds are actually precieved to be coming from is more about equipment and placement of speakers...

i have a feeling most people with a simple 2way comp set would benefit from dta even if it isnt perfect, it beats nothing by a long shot

sq is so damn biased anyways ofcourse this could go on forever... all i know is i set my dta to how i like the way it sounds and thats what matters and thats why im glad its available, it can really change staging

[Megalomaniac]

I think you got a bit confused on what i said. Driver seat biased, you will still hear sound coming from center of dash(rear view mirror center) but in same setting if I go and sit in passenger seat, it will not sound the same as the driver side at all. What I was actually asking was do you prefer your sound to come from rearview mirror center or do you prefer it to fire straight at you coming from front of steering hump. If had a diagram I would post it, I dont have a simple paint program on my mac so it will have to wait until tomorrow, hopefully you understand what I am asking now.

Edited December 21, 2008 by Megalomaniac

[Decaf]

o, steering wheel, but im a noob really when it comes to sq, just giving my .2cents on what i like since i have those options on my headunit and have always thought they made an improvement

im sure in the next few weeks when i get a new component set and 4 channel amp ill like the feature even more since i can align both the tweets and mids since i wont be using the crossover

anyone with a 360.2/cleansweep wanna comment?

[AI James]

I want to hear the SMD perspective on this topic:

1. Do you use it?yes

2. Do you care for it;(Do feel it is needed)?dont need it but i like the difference in sound

3. What's your method(s); your actual process into implementing time alignment? IMPRINT pretty much does everything i need

4. Any thing to be done before you start the T/A process? place the mic where i want

5. What are you trying to achieve(goals) with T/A? better imaging

6. Post any other thoughts you may have with this discussion. just feel it should be a standard feature of units rather then only be on higher end models

Edited December 21, 2008 by James

[AI James]

I think you got a bit confused on what i said. Driver seat biased, you will still hear sound coming from center of dash(rear view mirror center) but in same setting if I go and sit in passenger seat, it will not sound the same as the driver side at all. What I was actually asking was do you prefer your sound to come from rearview mirror center or do you prefer it to fire straight at you coming from front of steering hump. If had a diagram I would post it, I dont have a simple paint program on my mac so it will have to wait until tomorrow, hopefully you understand what I am asking now.

imo SQ is enveloping, when i can sit there and tell were every single speaker is thats rather meh to me. i realise some recording emphasize intruments in certain regions of the listening environment but for the most part i like it to sound like its around me as the listener rather then "coming form a central focal point.