Why Our President Is A Socialist

[The Performer]

I got this in an email called "Economics 101":

An economics professor at Texas Tech said he had never failed a single student before but had, once, failed an entire class. That class had insisted that socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer. The professor then said ok, we will have an experiment in this class on socialism.

All grades would be averaged and everyone would receive the same grade so no one would fail and no one would receive an A. After the first test the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. But, as the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too; so they studied little.. The second test average was a D! No one was happy. When the 3rd test rolled around the average was an F.

The scores never increased as bickering, blame, name calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else. All failed, to their great surprise, and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great; but when government takes all the reward away; no one will try or want to succeed.

Could not be any simpler than that.....

I really enjoyed reading that, (minus the "texas tech" part) I'm a ATM fan.

But it's a really good point and a good example, I think most people that believe in the current economic plan are either looking at the wrong perspective or too many spread out perspectives and are completely oblivious to the whole picture.

I like the discussion on the money and being rich. I think if you have money then it's yours, You must sign that check when time comes around to give it out. The fact that someone else can take away that money, (whether you deserve it or not) is besides the point.

When I drive home from my work making little money for hard work and I see a little rich kid driving a new corvette at the stoplight I don't believe in any sense that I'll ever have that car taken from him and given to me because that'll never happen. It's not fair, but it's not wrong. Fair does not ever mean right.

In my opinion I believe complete socialism could work. Make everything "fair" and equal, eliminate anyone who steps out of line. At the end of the day when only 1 person is left standing then the odds are that everything will start to go pretty damn smooth. The less people the less for stuff to screw up. But who in their right mind would agree on that? (Only the person in charge)

[cichlidfort]

I have spoken with at least 10 different individuals who "lost" their homes because they couldn't pay for them and couldn't get refinanced. Some couldn't get refinanced because with bad credit they made very poor choices with adjustable rate mortgages, others were laid off from their jobs, didn't have cash on hand to fall back on, and welfare and food stamps just didn't seem to be enough. What was in my pocket couldn't dig them out of a hole with 5 and 6 zeroes on it.

A lot of people that had to foreclose had no idea what they were originally getting into with their mortgages. Part of the problem is some of the mortgages that people bought only needed their "stated income." Anyone can lie about their stated income. E.g. someone can tell the lender that they make 90k a year but really only make 50k. Value of the home drops but they still owe that same mortgage and since interest rates fell, they can't refinance. A lot of Americans are just stupid when it comes to their money. If you know how to manage you're money, know when to invest, and how to save, then you're on the right track.

[Colin - STAPUFT]

Very true. That is why my wife and I as 1st time home buyers didn't lie on our income, put enough down to not have PMI, had additional cash on hand, and got a good fixed rate for only 15 years that we could afford. We didn't let ourselves be taken by greedy bankers or realtors. When two different lenders tried to mess us over, we took our business elsewhere, and those lenders lost out.

We paid attention to what we were doing. We didn't just jump into a home because everyone else was getting one. We also didn't take a lender or realtor's advise on what home we could afford- we figured out our own finances. Asking someone who is trying to sell you something if you can afford it is like asking an alcoholic if they want a drink.

[cichlidfort]

Very true. That is why my wife and I as 1st time home buyers didn't lie on our income, put enough down to not have PMI, had additional cash on hand, and got a good fixed rate for only 15 years that we could afford. We didn't let ourselves be taken by greedy bankers or realtors. When two different lenders tried to mess us over, we took our business elsewhere, and those lenders lost out.

We paid attention to what we were doing. We didn't just jump into a home because everyone else was getting one. We also didn't take a lender or realtor's advise on what home we could afford- we figured out our own finances. Asking someone who is trying to sell you something if you can afford it is like asking an alcoholic if they want a drink.

Yeah, that's good that you at least made a 20 percent down payment to get out of PMI. 15 years fixed in my opinion is the way to go if you can AFFORD it. Faster equity and lower interest rates. Saves money.

[trainman0978]

You said so many different things that I can't begin to address them all. So I will bite on this one paragraph. I am going to try to the best of my ability to answer each one of your questions.

The capitalist agenda has allowed my parents to bring me into this world (I was a second child- In China, they would have killed me). It allowed my parents to raise me as they saw fit- which thank goodness was in a God fearing, reward based, conservative household. It allowed me to work my way through college where I EARNED a degree. I then used that degree as I saw fit- not as someone else told me to use it. I then used that degree to EARN a job that I enjoyed and was good at- not one that I "had" to get because I was told to. I then used the money that I EARNED to purchase a home that my wife and I could afford. Everything I have- by the blessing of God- I was allowed to EARN.

Yes, I have suffered from the tax hike, because many of these wealthy people earn so much because they run large businesses. These people and their businesses aren't going to run at a loss (like our government is doing and has been doing almost since day 1)- they will pass on the tax hike to someone else... someone else like me, a lowly consumer.

I tithe to my church. As in 10% or more of my gross income. Before the taxes or SOCIAL security (hey look! it is in the name!! SOCIAL) come out. I CHOOSE to do this. It is my choice. No one makes me, I do it for the good of others and to keep a giving attitude. My wife and I give more than the government takes for itself. So- there is my financial charity. On my own I give more than the government takes, DESPITE of what it takes from my check. My church donates to several local christian works as well as several local homeless foundations, overseas christian works that provide food and shelter if you are a christian or not. I give to the church so it can do the works- I don't want the recognition for the funds I give. I can't claim it on my taxes. Besides- it isn't my money after all, it is God's... I am just a steward of it. I am active in my church- that is active in my town.

I have spoken with at least 10 different individuals who "lost" their homes because they couldn't pay for them and couldn't get refinanced. Some couldn't get refinanced because with bad credit they made very poor choices with adjustable rate mortgages, others were laid off from their jobs, didn't have cash on hand to fall back on, and welfare and food stamps just didn't seem to be enough. What was in my pocket couldn't dig them out of a hole with 5 and 6 zeroes on it.

The last administration was trying to hold back the flood gates that the liberals at ACORN and Fanny May and Freddie Mack (ask good old Barney Frank about how well they did) had been unleashing from waaaaaaaay back since Clinton's administration. Remember when government and all of these "organizations" (ACORN being one of the most prominent) began saying that everyone deserves a home? Even Bush toward the end of his term started saying that stuff. In one breath liberals will call him stupid, and in the next claim that he knew of the upcoming crisis. Which one is it? Bush didn't do all of this in a short 8 years. This has been a long time coming. Everyone doesn't deserve a home. That is as plain as I can speak. You are telling me that a practicing drug dealer, an on the loose rapist, a liar who isn't really disabled, someone who is too lazy to work, someone who makes 30k a year but "wants" that 400k home, etc... deserves a home just because this is America? If you don't work you don't "deserve" a home. You have to EARN a home, just like I did and continue to do.

Now- can you answer your own questions?

I can answer my own questions. I can tell you this much... I wont get started on what I do or dont feel about religion.... this sub forum is already enough of a debate staying on politics. I do give to charity, I am somewhat active in the boy scouts ( not as much as I would like to be, thanks to my career choice ) and I am involved in the Free masons.... that is adequate in my eyes.

I touched on so many topics because I was attempting to point out that before you go labeling the president a socialist, you should look at things your own party does , to protect a much smaller , all be it more wealthy group of people, in what some would consider a very socialist manner. The rich help the rich stay wealthy, the rich see to it that the rich get military protection, the rich get military contracts through lobbying.... hardly a capitalist approach, but a close minded clique approach.

Also, Since it seems you put so much into your church, and believe in it devoutly, I suppose there is some way to tie capitalism to religion from your perspective then? I can't find an example myself, yet, most republicans seem to put more stock in the bible than the constitution when it comes to creating laws, in which I would direct you to the 1st amendment, which states that you can choose any religion you like, and it IS your business, no one else's .... yet one of America's biggest conservative problems is taking the bible out of context and trying to write it into law, punishable by prison and/or fines..... as well public embarrassment.

I would also like to point out, that yes, no body warned the american public that the economy was tanking. An absolute fair point. But it is what it is. And something has to be done. So, on that note I would like to quote this, because it is my most absolute favorite thing about America.....

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. "

As some one who is clearly educated like your self, I dont need to state what the above text is.... And if you put all personal emotion aside and think what is best for this country, and EVERYBODY who lives here.... Obama is the closest thing to this that we have seen since the founding fathers signed this very document. You call it socialism. I call it a different and welcome attempt to make the United States of America the best it can possibly be after many long years, under republican and democrat rule, into what these guys had in mind. Transparant and benefiting everyone, not just the elite few who " earn " all of this wealth you defend so vigorously.

Wealth , to the extent the top 1% of the american population considers themselves, is more corrupt and unearned than any other social and economic class of citizen. The make their wealth because they are wealthy, not because they try to use their wealth to make this country better.... or in your terms, they dont re invest that wealth back into the people that made them wealthy. They cut jobs, they set up corporate offices in other countries to avoid paying corporate tax, they avoid providing health care and contributing to employee retirement plans voluntarily , they do every thing they can to make money off of the people, with out reinvesting in those very people. It is a system doomed to fail. The below poverty income class is getting larger, the middle class is earning a smaller net income, lowering their numbers and weakening the economic machine, while the rich are going to still be selling goods and services to a population that cant afford them. the system is doomed to fail if things dont change. In no way can you argue this type of business model will prosper..... It is a economic system that is doomed to fail, and it has already started... so I am up for a change.... are you?

Or would rather have " youbetcha " in the white house?

[Colin - STAPUFT]

I didn't get too much into my religious views because I know that isn't permitted here (it is first and foremost an audio forum- and this one specifically is political after all) and I enjoy my religious freedom just as I wish everyone else to enjoy theirs. I just said the things I did to let you know where I am coming from and that I am glad that I had the choice to do as I pleased religiously. I'm not trying to relive the crusades or the inquisition here.

I am not a member of the Republican Party. What I am is Not a Democrat. If you had to define it, I am a Conservative Libertarian. I didn't try to tie my specific religion to the Republican party- my religion is part of who I am, so it all rolls together.

The whole thing is about choice. I like having the choice. I can't see socialism and socialistic thinking as giving me the choice. I am being told what to do- by our current pres, the previous one, the congress, courts, so on... I don't like that. It is a slippery slope when you go down that path.

You aren't telling me anything I don't know about the poor either- for over 2 years my wife and I combined made less than poverty level for an individual. When I got laid off from a job I had, they said I made too little money to get unemployment! Too little! Isn't that the time people need help? Also- our social worker for food stamps lost our check 4 weeks in a row- and that is with me putting the thing in her hand every time. So- we were denied food due to her ineptitude. So I am not above getting help from my fellow taxpayers when I truly need it (read- failed to support my family and felt like a total piece of crap). All of this was during Bush's presidency. I didn't get mad at him though- I went out and found 3 jobs, then I found a really good one. I never said I was a big Bush fan. I want Thomas Jefferson back as President- if he weren't so dead... If memory serves, he was the ONLY president to ever balance the budget and run at a federal surplus instead of a deficit.

I also know that you aren't going to change my views on this and I am not going to change yours. It is great the we have the freedom and ability to express our different views. Most socialist countries just don't have that freedom.

[trainman0978]

again, though. You have failed to discuss any of the "conservative" typical behaviors, and failed to focus in on the issue at hand, which the original thread poster intended, which was calling Obama a socialist. Instead you went on first to talking about how earning everything you have made you a capitalist, and your religion made your life better.

Then in the last post , you go on about having a choice. Choice. What a word. The choice of millions was to elect Barack Obama to office. The choice of many will always outweigh the choice of one. It is democracy in the simplest form, not socialism.

In a capitalist society, the choice of a few , wealthy people will dictate the options for the masses. That is not choice, that is bordering on fascism. America was not created by those of old to become a Fascist society.

[cichlidfort]

Obama isn't a socialist. Enough said.

[Team Bassick Joey]

If you guys really want to trip out... Google The Obama Deception... This nation has been controlled by big business and big banks for years....This whole economy B/S was man made by some smart and powerful people to screw with Hard working Americans so that we can beg the government for help!!!.... and there solution will be One World Order...... They already asked several time to change our Currency.......

The President is a Puppet!!!! educate yourself..... just check out the movie it's free here on the web it well make you think!!!!

[RamenNoodles]

Im done reading this thread.