The Awsome D925

[loopkiller]

The meter I used was a true RMS but not with the shunt transformer. This method was approved by the CFO of the company I was working for, he is the head electronic engineer for the company.

Usually you dont need to multiply by .707 but its because we were using a seperate shunt to handle the high current.

Hmm, I will take your word for it. So, anyways, I like the build and I think it looks really nice with the lighting.

How much amperage are you drawing on the DC side when pushing 12kW? What type of alts do you have? It just seems like those batteries should drop further than 12.5V under a 1300A load.

[HHR Ed]

Hmm, I will take your word for it. So, anyways, I like the build and I think it looks really nice with the lighting.

How much amperage are you drawing on the DC side when pushing 12kW? What type of alts do you have? It just seems like those batteries should drop further than 12.5V under a 1300A load.

Thanks man,

Stock alternator. These batts charge quick and easy.

DC amp draw was under 1200A, but I forget the exact number.

[loopkiller]

Thanks man,

Stock alternator. These batts charge quick and easy.

DC amp draw was under 1200A, but I forget the exact number.

Wow! That is one hell of an efficient amp!

1200A x 12.5V = 15kw

12kW / 15kw = 80% efficiency under full load

That is kind of hard to believe... wow.

Not to mention that the stock alt is doing what, 100A max? So that puts the battery draws at 1100A total, or about 140A per battery. So those small D925 only drop to 12.5V under a 140A load? That is pretty amazing stuff.

[HHR Ed]

stock alt in the HHR 2 LT with the 2.4L is 120A,

80% efficient is low compared to alot of the big amps out there now.

I am tested and seen tests of other 5K plus amps at 90-95% efficiency.

85-90% seems to be a standard nowadays.

[loopkiller]

stock alt in the HHR 2 LT with the 2.4L is 120A,

80% efficient is low compared to alot of the big amps out there now.

I am tested and seen tests of other 5K plus amps at 90-95% efficiency.

85-90% seems to be a standard nowadays.

Wow they do 90% at full rated power? That is some cool stuff. I always thought that amps would become much less efficient at full rated power. From what I had heard in the past is that they usually drop 10% to 20% in efficiency under full load vs rated efficiency at low power draw. Reason being that they make much more heat as a by product under full load and that shows in the amp efficiency.

[loopkiller]

OK Ed, now I did a little snooping into some of your past posts on some of the other forums and saw that you used to use the Kinetik batteries. You used to run the same setup with three HC2400 batteries. You said in previous posts that even under a very heavy and long load you would never drop below 12.0V with the Kinetik setup. Here are the posts where I found this info. I have cut out some of the unimportant parts, but the links to the full posts are here as well, in case you are worried about being taken out of context.

I am running my Maxximus 10,000 from my stock alt. I have a few batteries in there. Currently 3 Kinetik HC2400s and voltage drops from 14.6v to 12.2 or so at a full burp and I measured over 11,000w output of the amp...

Quote Link

...The longest full tilt burp attempted was 30 seconds and voltage dropped to 12.00v. I did this just testing a 46hz tone on Bass Race metering and averaged 150.5 dB over the 30 seconds.

Quote Link

...I have 384 ah of battery storage.

Consuming a max of 916A (measured). for my max measured time of 30 seconds.

So I can theoretically deplete my entire battery storage in about 25 minutes.

So in 30 seconds I am depleting 2% of my reserve...

Quote Link

Ok, so now we have a decent heads up comparison to the two different batteries that you have ran. Let's look at the specs provided for each of these batteries:

Kinetik HC2400

Rated for 2400W

13in x 6.7in x 8.2in

69 lbs

XS D925

Rated for 2500W

6.5in x 6.93in x 4.92in

23.37 lbs

Now since you had only three of the HC2400s and they are rated for 2400W each, then they should only be rated to handle about 7200W, which is much less than your 12kW system, yet they held up pretty well. But, with the eight D925s, which are rated for 2500W each, or a total of 20,000W, you don't seem to make much gains, if any. So I guess one could assume that the Kinetik batteries are under-rated and the XS is over-rated.

Would you agree?

And then there is this rating that you gave above saying that your amp pulls a max of 916A and that you measured that to be sure. Well let's do some simple math here. I will use 13.0V for these arguments, even though you end up dropping below that at the end of the burp.

916A x 13.0V = 11,908W (before amp efficiency is figured) x 90% = 10717W

Now I think this would confirm your previous statement that you make over the 10kW the amp is rated for, assuming that your 90% efficiency rating holds true, even at full tilt. But, just for the sake of argument, let's take a look at that same math with a more realistic amp efficiency of 70%.

916A x 13.0V = 11,908W (before amp efficiency is figured) x 70% = 8335.6W

This is more likely the case. Now since Hifonics rates your amp at 10kw @ 14.4V and they give a fuse rating of 1000A.

1000A x 14.4V = 14,400W

10,000W / 14,400W = 69.4%

So I would assume that Hifonics would expect about a 70% efficiency from this particular amp, kind of like I suggested before.

So under this new math, we can assume that you are making about 8300W from eight 2500W batteries.

[scottiej]

wow... I've got a question for ya loopkiller...

Who are you?

I mean, as smart as you are about everything it seems, don't you want people to know who you are so they can appreciate all the knowledge you've bestowed upon us? Don't you want to brag about all the competition championships you have won, or all the prestigious degrees that you have earned in engineering, new product development, sales and marketing?

Seriously, how much time do you spend searching other forums and formulating a defense against every thread you post in? Is this your full time job? I've never thought about how much it must pay to be a keyboard commando.

At XS Power we do not feel that there is any benefit to taking part in confrontational situations on an internet forum. It becomes very difficult to participate and be a part of forum activity if we are continually going to get bashed and second guessed by someone who will not even identify themselves. You have been provided with many examples of the performance of our products, but for some reason you refuse to believe it. As I have asked in another thread on the same subject, please take the opportunity to test one of our batteries and use it as suggested and then tell me it does not work or is over-rated. I have also explained that our wattage recommendations are meant to be used as a general guideline to help enthusiasts choose the best product to fit their needs. If you have extra-ordinary needs, then maybe you should not refer to our recommendations, but use your own methods to determine what you need. You certainly seemed qualified enough to figure out what you need on your own without having to refer to a chart or to anyone else for advice.

I really hope that I do not have to continually check the forums only to have to copy and paste this exact post over and over to make sure that the buying public does not get a bad impression from your comments. If you have further technical questions I will be happy to help assist you in your choice of batteries.

[loopkiller]

wow... I've got a question for ya loopkiller...

Who are you?

I mean, as smart as you are about everything it seems, don't you want people to know who you are so they can appreciate all the knowledge you've bestowed upon us? Don't you want to brag about all the competition championships you have won, or all the prestigious degrees that you have earned in engineering, new product development, sales and marketing?

Seriously, how much time do you spend searching other forums and formulating a defense against every thread you post in? Is this your full time job? I've never thought about how much it must pay to be a keyboard commando.

At XS Power we do not feel that there is any benefit to taking part in confrontational situations on an internet forum. It becomes very difficult to participate and be a part of forum activity if we are continually going to get bashed and second guessed by someone who will not even identify themselves. You have been provided with many examples of the performance of our products, but for some reason you refuse to believe it. As I have asked in another thread on the same subject, please take the opportunity to test one of our batteries and use it as suggested and then tell me it does not work or is over-rated. I have also explained that our wattage recommendations are meant to be used as a general guideline to help enthusiasts choose the best product to fit their needs. If you have extra-ordinary needs, then maybe you should not refer to our recommendations, but use your own methods to determine what you need. You certainly seemed qualified enough to figure out what you need on your own without having to refer to a chart or to anyone else for advice.

I really hope that I do not have to continually check the forums only to have to copy and paste this exact post over and over to make sure that the buying public does not get a bad impression from your comments. If you have further technical questions I will be happy to help assist you in your choice of batteries.

Wow Scottie, I wish I had all those things to brag about, but to be brutally honest, I am just your average guy who loves car audio and has too much time on my hands.

I don't hold any championships, degrees, or awards. None.

I have never competed. I don't have any awards, at least not since I won my Pinewood Derby race as an 8 year old Cub Scout.

What I do know is that people come here for your extensive knowledge because we all know very well that you are one of the best in the business. I have never dissed you as a person of knowledge. I am not riding your nuts or anything, but anyone who knows car audio knows about Scotty Johnson. You have my respect there.

Now as far as your business is concerned, I do take issue with some of your product ratings. I do see them as being inflated. I like to help the newcomers to the sport on the forums because it is the easiest way to contribute and well as the best place for them to get the info they need. It just rubs me the wrong way when the info on your site contradicts what people like me suggest. It is not like I want to be right to spite you, it just seems awfully strange that the XS ratings are much higher than comparable products from your competition.

I personally have a Kinetik in my car and it works great for me. I have recommended your products in the past as well. I also think that Stinger/Odyssey/Hawker/Deka all have a very good product as well. I usually tell people to find one that meets your budget and go with that. So it is not like I have something against you or your company (or it's products) per se. It is your marketing that I take fault with. I think that has become increasingly apparent.

If and when my Kinetik does die, I would highly consider buying an XS unit as a replacement. I would give it the same chance at my business as any of the other brands I mentioned above. I would buy the one I thought was the best value. If that ended up being the XS, I would pull the trigger for sure.

Hope you don't take most posts all that seriously...

[scottiej]

Wow Scottie, I wish I had all those things to brag about, but to be brutally honest, I am just your average guy who loves car audio and has too much time on my hands.

I don't hold any championships, degrees, or awards. None.

I have never competed. I don't have any awards, at least not since I won my Pinewood Derby race as an 8 year old Cub Scout.

What I do know is that people come here for your extensive knowledge because we all know very well that you are one of the best in the business. I have never dissed you as a person of knowledge. I am not riding your nuts or anything, but anyone who knows car audio knows about Scotty Johnson. You have my respect there.

Now as far as your business is concerned, I do take issue with some of your product ratings. I do see them as being inflated. I like to help the newcomers to the sport on the forums because it is the easiest way to contribute and well as the best place for them to get the info they need. It just rubs me the wrong way when the info on your site contradicts what people like me suggest. It is not like I want to be right to spite you, it just seems awfully strange that the XS ratings are much higher than comparable products from your competition.

I personally have a Kinetik in my car and it works great for me. I have recommended your products in the past as well. I also think that Stinger/Odyssey/Hawker/Deka all have a very good product as well. I usually tell people to find one that meets your budget and go with that. So it is not like I have something against you or your company (or it's products) per se. It is your marketing that I take fault with. I think that has become increasingly apparent.

If and when my Kinetik does die, I would highly consider buying an XS unit as a replacement. I would give it the same chance at my business as any of the other brands I mentioned above. I would buy the one I thought was the best value. If that ended up being the XS, I would pull the trigger for sure.

Hope you don't take most posts all that seriously...

I take any post seriously that contradicts the way we present our company. You are certainly welcome to your opinion, and I, as well as others value that. The forums are here for the sole purpose of contributing to the community, and that is why we (XS Power) are here. For you to repeatedly boast that our ratings and recommendations are wrong (instead of that you do not totally agree with them) is not contributing, it is bashing. I would have no issue with you disagreeing with our recommendations if you had actual experience with our products. However, you can-not use your experience with your battery to determine the performance of ours, just as I would not use my experience driving my Malibu to determine the performance of a Vette.

When you say that “it rubs you the wrong way when the info on our site contradicts what people like you suggest”… maybe this means you should reconsider your suggestions, or maybe (like I’ve said numerous times) you have higher expectations than what the average consumer is looking for. I am sure if we followed your recommendations we would sell a lot more batteries to people that may not need them, but that is not our intention. Our recommendations are a guideline that fits for the majority… if you don’t want to follow our recommendation then that is up to you… you are outside of that guideline.

Oh… you avoided the question. Who are you again?

[HHR Ed]

just want to say about my switch from Kinetik.

No matter what electrical differences occurred in my switch, look at my dB Drag Stats, I can pin point the exact time I switched, because my SPL increased 2dB.

Not only that but my Kinetiks were going bad. The highest I got my SPL in testing with Kinetiks was 151.4, then 2 had dead cells and I dropped to 149 dB. Then installed the XS Powers and up to 152.6dB. After some tuning, 153.5dB