Megalomaniac Posted July 21, 2009 Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 People who helped with the review, I will post their thoughts as soon as they send them to me.: Mark(azngotskillz) Steven(Itlynstylion) Mir (Megalomaniac) Joseph (~Magick_Man~) Matt (El_Chupo) Here is a list of all the different speakers we had to mess with. Tweeters: -ScanSpeak Illuminator (small version); purchased from Madisoun -Morel MDT12 (didn't have time to play with these); purchased from Parts Express -Hybrid Audio L1Pro (Scott from HAT sent them to us) -Hybrid Audio L1v2 (Purchased from HAT) -Tweeter X (I cannot disclose what company this is right now, I am told by the owner of the company to keep the name a hush hush) -Critical Mass T1-A (there was an issue with one of these so we didn't use them) (These were sent to us by the same company that sent tweeter x) -XBL Ceramic tweeter from Dan Wiggins(this is the first tweeter ever to utilize the xbl patent)(these are not for sale, an OEM has to pick these up) -Hiquphon OWII ( Purchased from Madisound) Midranges: -Hybrid Audio L4( Scott of HAT sent these to us) -CHR-70 (My friend that helped with the review,Itlynstalion, is a dealer for Mark Audio and CSS Sounds) -CHReN (modified version of the CHR70, by Dave at Planet 10-Hi-Fi) -CSS FR125sr (My friend that helped with the review,Itlynstalion, is a dealer for Mark Audio and CSS Sounds) And the Mid that was paired with all of these were a pair of Focal mids but I don't know the model, I will have to look it up later. And now onto the pics: -ScanSpeak Illuminator (small) -Hybrid Audio L1Pro -Hybrid Audio L1v2 -Tweeter X -XBL Ceramic tweeter from Dan Wiggins of ADI. -Hiquphon Didn't get any good pics of this one. (Bottom center) -Morel MDT12 didn't test -Critical Mass T1-A didn't work Team Stereo Clarity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megalomaniac Posted July 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 -Hybrid Audio L4 -CHR-70 -CHReN (modified by Dave at Planet 10-Hi-Fi) -CSS FR125sr Team Stereo Clarity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megalomaniac Posted July 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 Team Stereo Clarity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megalomaniac Posted July 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 Team Stereo Clarity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megalomaniac Posted July 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 Fair warning, I am going to be truthful and go by exactly how I perceived it, yes its subjective. Equipment used was: RANE ac23 active xover Crown XLS 202 for mids Class T amp from parts express for tweeters Tweeters: ScanSpeak Illuminator (small) - The Illuminators were very impressive for a 3/4" tweeter. They played down low to 2.2khz with no noticeable distortion. We did not play these lower because I was afraid to damage them. But for $400+ Tweeters I was not overly impressed. I wish the top end would extend a bit further. These werent excessively laid back but they were a little lacking. These would be perfect for anyone who enjoys that warm fulfilling sound. These placed 3rd for me. Morel MDT12 (didn't have time to play with these) No dice! Hybrid Audio L1Pro - These placed 2nd on my list. They played low down to 1.5khz. The top end was really good. We listened to the Mumbai Theme and the strings sounded great along with that triangle on the left side of stage, sounded very real. But lost points in clarity that triangle wasnt as focused as the ADI tweeters made them. Hybrid Audio L1v2 These did all around poor in the home audio realm. As Scott said these are strictly for a 4-way setup(sub,midb,midr,tw). You really cannot use these below 3.5khz. It had no fullness, lack of clarity, and really had to feed them power to hear them. Now when listening to these in the car, they perform well! It sounds like a completely different speaker. Its strange how that works. I guess with all the reflections in the car they dont need as much power and the sparkle better. but that 3.5khz comes to play in the car as long as you had a decent mid to pair with. On a side note, these performed soo poorly in the Home Audio but great in the car leads me to wonder if the L1 Pro performs terribly in the car, id imagine they would tear a head off! But I wont know until I try them in the car. Tweeter X There was nothing impressive about this tweeter at all. These tweeters had very little top end to me, and off axis even worst! Instruments sounded artificial, and vocals were hollow. They seriously demand tuning. These tweeters would be the kind that come in a mediocre component set. I cannot talk too much about this tweeter, I was asked not to for the moment. Critical Mass T1-A (there was an issue with one of these so we didn't use them) Thats pretty funny, for an overpriced tweeter made to market. They cant even make them right just kidding, we dont know why this one wasnt working, something could have happened in shipping. ADI XBL Ceramic tweeter from Dan Wiggins Honestly these were my favorite! I really loved everything about these. These sounded better crossed at 1.5khz than 2.5khz. They love to play low, and they play plenty full too. these really disperse wide and can fill up a room. Off axis is really good, i suspect its because of that plastic lens on it. These had a unique dryness to the sound that made pianos, flutes, clarinats, bells sound solid, solid as in it didnt have any washed awayness, it had plenty of decay for those metal instruments. Now I dont know who(OEM) will pick these up but I hope they dont charge too much for them! But as great as these sound its going to be hard for them not to! side note: they sound extremely similar to the Tang Band version. The only difference I could really tell was the low end was significantly improved. These ADI's are happier playing lower. I will talk about the fullranges a bit later. Team Stereo Clarity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megalomaniac Posted July 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 the modified version of the CHR70. the cone has been treated with something, and then painted dots in a weird pattern, the paint is slightly raised too. Its suppose to help with high frequency breakup, and believe me they work! I will talk more about it when I finish typing up the reviews on them. Team Stereo Clarity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkolfo4 Posted July 21, 2009 Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 Man I run MDT-12's in my van. I really like them for the price. Too bad you did not test them. Mine are crossed over at 2300 Hz. Brian Current system: 1997 Blazer - (4) Customer Fi NEO subs with (8) American Bass Elite 2800.1s Previous systems: 2000 Suburban - (4) BTL 15's and (4) IA 40.1's = 157.7 dB at 37 Hz. 1992 Astro Van - (6) BTL 15's and (6) IA 40.1's = 159.7 dB at 43 Hz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forevrbumpn Posted July 21, 2009 Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 Iam a big fan of Scanspeak, and the new illuminator series mids and highs they incredible. If I had $300 per mid to pay for them, I would in a heart beat I have a habit of using Vifa, just because I have ran close to nothing else but Vifa, Peerless, and Scanspeak in the past 10 years for cars mids and highs, as well as home audio Only problem with mids of these caliber tested, in a car audio set up like most have here on the forum, the mids wont last long in a high SPL environment, but SQ ONLY, they should be just fine I have a ritual called "terminator". I crouch in the shower in the "naked terminator" pose. With eyes closed I crouch for a minute and visualize either Arnie or the guy from the 2nd movie. I then start to hum the T2 theme. Slowly I rise to a standing position and open my eyes. It helps me get through my day. The only problem is if the shower curtain sticks to my terminator leg. It sorta ruins the fantasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkolfo4 Posted July 21, 2009 Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 I have the Scanspeak 9500 tweeters and Scanspeak 18W/8545 7" mids in my HT speakers. Awesome. . . Brian Current system: 1997 Blazer - (4) Customer Fi NEO subs with (8) American Bass Elite 2800.1s Previous systems: 2000 Suburban - (4) BTL 15's and (4) IA 40.1's = 157.7 dB at 37 Hz. 1992 Astro Van - (6) BTL 15's and (6) IA 40.1's = 159.7 dB at 43 Hz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megalomaniac Posted July 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 More reviews: Tweeters: -ScanSpeak Illuminator (small) I think these were my personal favorite. Pretty laid back and didn't have any problem playing to 2.5k and below. I have a feeling in a car with some moderate eq these would be amazing. The $400 price tag will unfortunately keep me from ever buying them. -Hiquphon OWII To me these sounded very similar to the scans, Although we didn't get in as much time with them as I would have liked. They seemed to like being crossed a bit higher than the scans at around 3k. At about $220 they are not prohibitively expensive. And for anyone wanting to go with large format tweeters in their car I would definitely look at these. -Hybrid Audio L1Pro These seemed to really like playing down low. If I remember right we ran them below 2k and they never complained that I could hear. A little bright on the top end but that should be definitely workable with some eq. Overall a very nice sounding tweeter. But the relatively large size (mounting depth) could make mounting them a little tricky. And the semi high price tag seemingly limits their appeal. But if the space and price are not a problem they are definitely something you should look at. -Hybrid Audio L1v2 I may be a bit biased since these are what I run in my car. They are a 3/4" tweeter like the scan and hiquphon. In the house where we did this i kind of have to agree with the others. They did not seem to live up to what I personally know they are capable of. And they do not like to play much below 3k. Overall they seem like tweeters designed for a specific purpose and that was not how we were testing them. BUT: as I said before I run these in my car and it is a completely different story there. I run them at 3.15k @ 24db with no eq applied at all. They extend very well on the top end and overall sound very good, even if you are pretty off axis. -Tweeter X Well i am not sure what to say about these. They did not stand out in any way over the others. Except the very shallow mounting depth. It was not a bad sounding tweeter but the word average comes to mind. Hopefully when put in a car it would come to life like the L1v2 does. But we did not have a chance to test that theory. -XBL Ceramic tweeter from Dan Wiggens A very strong performer, like the others said it seems to prefer a lower crossover point. Great top end, and overall a very strong contender. It tends to be a bit bright for my taste. And that worries me that it could become harsh in a car. But based on what megalomaniac said about his tang band ceramics that might not be a problem. Midranges: Disclaimer: these speakers were tested on an open baffle because we were not able to get boxes built for each one. So their performance may have suffered from this in certain areas. We used a towel to cover the rear of the speakers and help absorb the rear waves as much as possible. -Hybrid Audio L4 I was very impressed with this speaker. Running from 450hz up (the lowest point on our crossover) it did a great job. It did get a bit hot on the the top end but that should be easily fixed via eq. but other than that I have a hard time finding any fault with these speakers. I am not sure what they would do off axis. But I know on axis they do a very good job. Imaging was very good and better than the other mids I listened to. Everything we threw at them from Hotel California to Spanish Harlem was played back very well. I would have no problem running these from 200 or so up in a car from what I heard. The only thing I would change on these is the price which seems a bit high at $300 But good things rarely come cheap. And if you run these without a tweeter it would be easier to deal with the higher price point (well to me at least) -CSS FR125sr I had high hopes for this speaker and was somewhat disappointed with it. It it sold as a fullrange speaker but for my taste with no eq the top end definitely falls short. I think in a well done box with a small tweeter to play the very top end this would be a great wide range speaker. And at only $50 a piece not too expensive. -CHR-70 This is the driver used in a pair of horn speakers steven has made. And it it much closer to a full range driver than the css. But at the cost of slightly reduced bottom end. Although with the right enclosure that may be negligible. Priced very reasonably (i think about $70 per pair) With the right box you might be able to live without a sub. -CHReN (modified by Dave at Planet 10-Hi-Fi) This is the modified version of the last driver. As far as I can tell the modification consists of 3 things. The dot pattern painted on the cone, some kind of coating applied to the entire cone on top of the dots, and some modeling clay like substance applied to the back side of the basket. (look at my picture in the second post) The top end was reduced a bit but overall they are very similar sounding drivers. My brief take on a few. I dont have any notes with me, as I am at work... Also note, for many drivers I was on axis only... Tweeters: ScanSpeak Illuminator (small) - The Illuminators were very impressive.We played them fairly low for typical car use, as Mir said, about 2.2k. They were laid back, but with good detail. I really enjoy the laid back sound, and I think with a warm mid they would be excellent. They definitely were lacking a bit up top, but an EQ may solve it enough for most. Morel MDT12 (didn't have time to play with these) No time, no time. Hybrid Audio L1Pro I was pleasantly surprised at these tweeters. They played LOW, and sounded good doing it. Great definition, with good upper frequency "sparkle". I think overall, these were my favorite tweeters, as they were not so bright they were fatiguing. I agree with Mir about the focus on the triangle, but I did not find it detrimental in my listening experience. Hybrid Audio L1v2 Not impressed. I have not heard them in a car. Sounded bad below 3.5k, and even there they werent nice. Kind of cheap sounding, actually. Not great sparkle, no fullness. I have heard the old L1v1, in a car, but with a mid as well, so I cannot really compare. But I liked em better... Tweeter X What Mir said. Cheap sounding, although the easiest to put in a car, other than the CM tweeters, based on size. NO off axis response, kind of harsh, never sounded "right" Critical Mass T1-A (there was an issue with one of these so we didn't use them) One didnt work. Did not listen. Spent the few minutes it takes to switch them out making fun of them. ADI XBL Ceramic tweeter from Dan Wiggins These were very nice. They played low, and I liked em better lower than higher. They sounded good on several songs, with non real problems. I do wish they were available to play with, but like some others, too deep for my car... Instruments sounded good, and vocals were amazing. Easily 2nd, very close the the HAT l1pro FULL RANGE: I started off the day listening for a few minutes to Stevens CHR-70 Lotus towers. I am impressed. We tried the L4, the CHR-70, the modified version, and a CSS driver These were kind of rushed, as I had to head out. I would rank them as follows, with some notes: 1. L4 - This really could be paired with a good midbass and be all you needed. First time I had heard an L4, and I was impressed. EXCELLENT response from 450hz up (low point on the crossover) with good mid and upper response, even to the point of being a bit loud up top. A bit of EQ and you would be golden. It was obvious there was no tweeter, but not to the point of thinking " I have to have it" I made a point of listening to these off axis, and it was still decent. Lost some of the upper range, but not as bad as Tweeter X... 2. CHR70/Modified version. For 70 bucks a pair, these competed with the L4. The L4 was better, but costs 4 times as much. The modified ones were impressive, but still a bit shy. A bit less upper end, and the midrange was not as full, but realize none of these were in an enclosure of any kind. I liked the CHR's enough to start looking into some for a HT setup. 3. The CSS: Not impressed in this test. Needed a tweeter for the upper range, and not as full in the mid range as the others, but they may have needed more power. Could easily work with a good midbass and tweet, but hard to guess with out trying other stuff... Team Stereo Clarity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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