Let's talk cops

[Broke_Audio_Addict]

Private defense companies are a worse idea than a government run one.

Well then if that's the case I'm sure you have some argument to support your claim.

You know, I can make any general and random statement about anything I like but if I don't have an argument to back it up, should I expect anyone to take that statement as truth?

They would do the bidding of whoever has the most money to offer and you'd be back at following there rules or else.

Look up the Pinkerton's they actually had more people than the US military and were way more powerful.

[bbeljefe]

No, I'm not. I'm a philosophical libertarian. There's a difference in that you're referencing the political party. I was once a card carrying Libertarian but I no longer support the state in any way shape or form whatever.

So you're a Libertarian? Well that explains all of this then..

But I'm really interested to hear your thoughts on libertarianism if you can formulate a cogent argument against it. Other than that, your ad hominem, passive aggressive insults don't do much to shore up your argument. ;-)

Well from the looks of it your view do not differ very much from the political party. I do have a question that I have been wondering about. If you would rather there be little to no government, then what would become of the military?

I don't have any problem with defense but what the US military does now and has been doing for at least the past 70 years is nothing short of bullying other people around the world. There is no need at all for there to be over 700 military basis outside the US and there is no reason for the US to interject in the affairs of other people. Even when the US sends military into another country to "protect" that other country's citizenry from an oppressive government, the end result is the mass murder of untold numbers of innocent individuals.

Moreover, if you actually do some research into the facts surrounding the last 7 decades of US military actions, most of the dictators it purports to be protecting people from were actually puppets who were installed by the US at one point or another.

Take for instance the 911 attacks. Most people think that event was some spontaneous, initiated aggression by a random group of militant psychopaths but the reality is that the US government has been meddling in the affairs of middle eastern countries for decades. People in those areas grow up with US military bases all around them and they see the death and destruction caused by that occupation.

Truth be told, you and I have more in common with an Iraqi farmer than we do with the "leaders" of the US. Likewise with the farmer... he has more in common with us than he does with the "leaders" of his country. Yet he and us are told by our political masters that it is each other we should fear when in truth, it is those who claim to lead us who are causing ALL of these problems.

In short, I defend my home from within. I do not go to my neighbor's house and attempt to micromanage his activities under the pretense that I'm there to protect my home. I don't care that he may worship some invisible skyghost and I don't care that he may consume certain drugs or have sex with someone of his own gender. I only care that he refrain from harming others in his endeavors. And any true defensive militia would be doing the same and nothing more.

Good Lord, ask a simple question and get a history lesson. Still didn't really answer my question though.

I don't care what becomes of it. And I don't claim to know what should be done to defend any specific spot of land. I'm a car audio guy, not a defense expert and I trust that there are a lot of smart people out there who have some really good ideas of how defense should work. If presented the opportunity, I would research those different companies and support the one with the best & most peaceful strategy with my money.

I feel as though we could both type responses on a keyboard until our fingers were numb, but me nor anyone will ever be able to give a good enough response for you to give your opinion a second thought. I'm going to go out on a limb and say you don't lose many arguments, because even when you're wrong, you are still right.

Brother, I've been changing my positions on things for the last 30 odd years. I didn't get to where I am now because I refuse to listen or consider the arguments of others. I was not raised an anarchist and I was never taught about anarchy in school. I went out on my own and read, read, read as much as I possibly could. I listened to thousands of arguments, watched videos and contemplated all this information in great depth.

I didn't strike out looking for an excuse to be an anarchist, I started out looking to understand the things I saw around me. I never liked the idea that cops can throw you in a cage for doing something that harmed no one and I never liked the idea that I should pay money to strangers and have absolutely no control over where and how that money is spent but, I was looking for a valid and rational reason why that is the case. As you might expect, I didn't find one and I seriously doubt that I ever will. However, if I do, I'll change my position yet again.

There are two kinds of people. Those who live and learn and those who just live. The former change their positions and approaches when presented with evidence showing they're wrong. The latter do the same things over and over again, often expecting different results.

Those of you who support the state continue to vote for a different master who will somehow not do exactly what the last master did. You constantly complain about what your masters do to you but you march right back into the voting booth every time they allow you to, thinking that this time it will be different. This guy will somehow make things better. But that guy doesn't. All he does is take what the last guy did and run with it harder. This is why there are some 50,000 new laws put on the books each year in the US, all the while people continue to bitch and complain about all the new laws put on the books each year.

You statists spend an incredible amount of time and effort attempting to keep the leaves trimmed on the tree of evil, while we anarchists are diligently hacking away at its roots. ;-)

[bbeljefe]

Private defense companies are a worse idea than a government run one.

Well then if that's the case I'm sure you have some argument to support your claim.

You know, I can make any general and random statement about anything I like but if I don't have an argument to back it up, should I expect anyone to take that statement as truth?

They would do the bidding of whoever has the most money to offer and you'd be back at following there rules or else.

Look up the Pinkerton's they actually had more people than the US military and were way more powerful.

Pinkertons was not a private militia. It was established by the state and supported by the state. It was not voluntarily supported by any group of citizenry.

When a company is commissioned by the state and paid by the state it doesn't matter that its employees are not directly employed by and paid by the state... it's still an endeavor of the state.

When someone comes to my shop of their own volition and pays me for my services, with money they they themselves acquired peacefully, that's the definition of private.

And what makes you think that, in a purely voluntary society, an insurance company would be capable of funding this oppression you speak of? Standing armies are incredibly expensive, not to mention active and intrusive armies. The primary reason the US was taken off the gold standard is that if it had stayed on it, it would have been impossible to fund the military it has now. It's only through debt and the creation of fiat currency that the state can afford to pay for it's endeavors.

In a stateless society where the only thing any man has is his word and backing it up, few people would financially support any sort of militia that did anything other than stand at some border and defend them against attack.

Let me ask you this... If there were no government and you were in control of a power company, would you continue to sell electricity to a company whom you knew was using that electricity to fabricate weapons that would be used against you, your family and your friends? If you were a grocer, would you sell food to someone who worked for a company as a jack booted thug who stole from you, your family and your friends? Even today, would you sell whatever you sell for a living or whatever service you provide for a living to a person whom you knew to be a car thief?

If you're a plumber and you know that I'm a rapist, will you still come to my house and fix my toilet?

I would hope not. And I would hope that you would withdraw your financial support from a defense company who you knew to be harming others for no defensive reason.

[Jhunt94]

No, I'm not. I'm a philosophical libertarian. There's a difference in that you're referencing the political party. I was once a card carrying Libertarian but I no longer support the state in any way shape or form whatever.

So you're a Libertarian? Well that explains all of this then..

But I'm really interested to hear your thoughts on libertarianism if you can formulate a cogent argument against it. Other than that, your ad hominem, passive aggressive insults don't do much to shore up your argument. ;-)

Well from the looks of it your view do not differ very much from the political party. I do have a question that I have been wondering about. If you would rather there be little to no government, then what would become of the military?

I don't have any problem with defense but what the US military does now and has been doing for at least the past 70 years is nothing short of bullying other people around the world. There is no need at all for there to be over 700 military basis outside the US and there is no reason for the US to interject in the affairs of other people. Even when the US sends military into another country to "protect" that other country's citizenry from an oppressive government, the end result is the mass murder of untold numbers of innocent individuals.

Moreover, if you actually do some research into the facts surrounding the last 7 decades of US military actions, most of the dictators it purports to be protecting people from were actually puppets who were installed by the US at one point or another.

Take for instance the 911 attacks. Most people think that event was some spontaneous, initiated aggression by a random group of militant psychopaths but the reality is that the US government has been meddling in the affairs of middle eastern countries for decades. People in those areas grow up with US military bases all around them and they see the death and destruction caused by that occupation.

Truth be told, you and I have more in common with an Iraqi farmer than we do with the "leaders" of the US. Likewise with the farmer... he has more in common with us than he does with the "leaders" of his country. Yet he and us are told by our political masters that it is each other we should fear when in truth, it is those who claim to lead us who are causing ALL of these problems.

In short, I defend my home from within. I do not go to my neighbor's house and attempt to micromanage his activities under the pretense that I'm there to protect my home. I don't care that he may worship some invisible skyghost and I don't care that he may consume certain drugs or have sex with someone of his own gender. I only care that he refrain from harming others in his endeavors. And any true defensive militia would be doing the same and nothing more.

Good Lord, ask a simple question and get a history lesson. Still didn't really answer my question though.

I don't care what becomes of it. And I don't claim to know what should be done to defend any specific spot of land. I'm a car audio guy, not a defense expert and I trust that there are a lot of smart people out there who have some really good ideas of how defense should work. If presented the opportunity, I would research those different companies and support the one with the best & most peaceful strategy with my money.

I feel as though we could both type responses on a keyboard until our fingers were numb, but me nor anyone will ever be able to give a good enough response for you to give your opinion a second thought. I'm going to go out on a limb and say you don't lose many arguments, because even when you're wrong, you are still right.

Brother, I've been changing my positions on things for the last 30 odd years. I didn't get to where I am now because I refuse to listen or consider the arguments of others. I was not raised an anarchist and I was never taught about anarchy in school. I went out on my own and read, read, read as much as I possibly could. I listened to thousands of arguments, watched videos and contemplated all this information in great depth.

I didn't strike out looking for an excuse to be an anarchist, I started out looking to understand the things I saw around me. I never liked the idea that cops can throw you in a cage for doing something that harmed no one and I never liked the idea that I should pay money to strangers and have absolutely no control over where and how that money is spent but, I was looking for a valid and rational reason why that is the case. As you might expect, I didn't find one and I seriously doubt that I ever will. However, if I do, I'll change my position yet again.

There are two kinds of people. Those who live and learn and those who just live. The former change their positions and approaches when presented with evidence showing they're wrong. The latter do the same things over and over again, often expecting different results.

Those of you who support the state continue to vote for a different master who will somehow not do exactly what the last master did. You constantly complain about what your masters do to you but you march right back into the voting booth every time they allow you to, thinking that this time it will be different. This guy will somehow make things better. But that guy doesn't. All he does is take what the last guy did and run with it harder. This is why there are some 50,000 new laws put on the books each year in the US, all the while people continue to bitch and complain about all the new laws put on the books each year.

You statists spend an incredible amount of time and effort attempting to keep the leaves trimmed on the tree of evil, while we anarchists are diligently hacking away at its roots. ;-)

Trust me, I'm not a fan of the government the way it is now, but the difference between me and you is that you want to cut down the tree and pour salt on the ground and I'd like to cut it down to plant a better variety, and I don't vote so I can't be thrown into the lot with the rest of them lol If you ever succeed in cutting down the tree, just make sure you aren't standing under it when it all comes tumbling down

[bbeljefe]

No, I'm not. I'm a philosophical libertarian. There's a difference in that you're referencing the political party. I was once a card carrying Libertarian but I no longer support the state in any way shape or form whatever.

So you're a Libertarian? Well that explains all of this then..

But I'm really interested to hear your thoughts on libertarianism if you can formulate a cogent argument against it. Other than that, your ad hominem, passive aggressive insults don't do much to shore up your argument. ;-)

Well from the looks of it your view do not differ very much from the political party. I do have a question that I have been wondering about. If you would rather there be little to no government, then what would become of the military?

I don't have any problem with defense but what the US military does now and has been doing for at least the past 70 years is nothing short of bullying other people around the world. There is no need at all for there to be over 700 military basis outside the US and there is no reason for the US to interject in the affairs of other people. Even when the US sends military into another country to "protect" that other country's citizenry from an oppressive government, the end result is the mass murder of untold numbers of innocent individuals.

Moreover, if you actually do some research into the facts surrounding the last 7 decades of US military actions, most of the dictators it purports to be protecting people from were actually puppets who were installed by the US at one point or another.

Take for instance the 911 attacks. Most people think that event was some spontaneous, initiated aggression by a random group of militant psychopaths but the reality is that the US government has been meddling in the affairs of middle eastern countries for decades. People in those areas grow up with US military bases all around them and they see the death and destruction caused by that occupation.

Truth be told, you and I have more in common with an Iraqi farmer than we do with the "leaders" of the US. Likewise with the farmer... he has more in common with us than he does with the "leaders" of his country. Yet he and us are told by our political masters that it is each other we should fear when in truth, it is those who claim to lead us who are causing ALL of these problems.

In short, I defend my home from within. I do not go to my neighbor's house and attempt to micromanage his activities under the pretense that I'm there to protect my home. I don't care that he may worship some invisible skyghost and I don't care that he may consume certain drugs or have sex with someone of his own gender. I only care that he refrain from harming others in his endeavors. And any true defensive militia would be doing the same and nothing more.

Good Lord, ask a simple question and get a history lesson. Still didn't really answer my question though.

I don't care what becomes of it. And I don't claim to know what should be done to defend any specific spot of land. I'm a car audio guy, not a defense expert and I trust that there are a lot of smart people out there who have some really good ideas of how defense should work. If presented the opportunity, I would research those different companies and support the one with the best & most peaceful strategy with my money.

I feel as though we could both type responses on a keyboard until our fingers were numb, but me nor anyone will ever be able to give a good enough response for you to give your opinion a second thought. I'm going to go out on a limb and say you don't lose many arguments, because even when you're wrong, you are still right.

Brother, I've been changing my positions on things for the last 30 odd years. I didn't get to where I am now because I refuse to listen or consider the arguments of others. I was not raised an anarchist and I was never taught about anarchy in school. I went out on my own and read, read, read as much as I possibly could. I listened to thousands of arguments, watched videos and contemplated all this information in great depth.

I didn't strike out looking for an excuse to be an anarchist, I started out looking to understand the things I saw around me. I never liked the idea that cops can throw you in a cage for doing something that harmed no one and I never liked the idea that I should pay money to strangers and have absolutely no control over where and how that money is spent but, I was looking for a valid and rational reason why that is the case. As you might expect, I didn't find one and I seriously doubt that I ever will. However, if I do, I'll change my position yet again.

There are two kinds of people. Those who live and learn and those who just live. The former change their positions and approaches when presented with evidence showing they're wrong. The latter do the same things over and over again, often expecting different results.

Those of you who support the state continue to vote for a different master who will somehow not do exactly what the last master did. You constantly complain about what your masters do to you but you march right back into the voting booth every time they allow you to, thinking that this time it will be different. This guy will somehow make things better. But that guy doesn't. All he does is take what the last guy did and run with it harder. This is why there are some 50,000 new laws put on the books each year in the US, all the while people continue to bitch and complain about all the new laws put on the books each year.

You statists spend an incredible amount of time and effort attempting to keep the leaves trimmed on the tree of evil, while we anarchists are diligently hacking away at its roots. ;-)

Trust me, I'm not a fan of the government the way it is now, but the difference between me and you is that you want to cut down the tree and pour salt on the ground and I'd like to cut it down to plant a better variety, and I don't vote so I can't be thrown into the lot with the rest of them lol If you ever succeed in cutting down the tree, just make sure you aren't standing under it when it all comes tumbling down

Well my friend, that you don't vote is of no consequence. You still agitate for state control of resources and human action. I too stopped voting before I ever began to label myself as an anarchist but, I was still a statist and I still believed that somehow, some way, government could be kept in check.

But all we have to do is take a look at the social experiments that are the US and much of the west to see that limited government does not work. Matter of fact, more freedom in a statist society causes rapid out of control growth of the state and I'll explain why.

When the US was founded, there were no prohibitions on drug use, prostitution and pretty much anything other than rape, murder and theft. Now, there were obviously a few prohibitions on human behavior, which stemmed from religious fanaticism but by and large, prostitutes and the like were not actively pursued and prosecuted in the same manner they are today. Prostitutes, alcohol and various drugs could be bought and used in saloons with little worry of punishment. Everyone knew they existed but those who hated those behaviors mostly stayed away from saloons and houses of "ill repute", choosing instead to keep to themselves and visit churches or other places where like minded people congregated.

With that unbridled freedom came prosperity that humankind had never before seen. Innovation and commerce grew, poverty and child labor were on the decline and the standard of living in the US sped past that of all other countries on the planet... even that of Britain. And then the state began to tax more and more of that commerce and invariably, with its newfound wealth it began to become more and more intrusive into the lives of the citizenry. And right now, today, the US government is the largest and most intrusive government in human history. It imprisons are larger portion of its people than any other country in history and most of those people are in those prisons for non violent crimes where the state is the only claimed victim.

This is exactly what happened to the Roman empire and it's what happened to Great Britain, albeit much more slowly.

Moreover, just as an FYI, poverty in the US is now on the rise even though violent crime is and has been on the decline for decades. The wars on poverty, drugs and terrorism are not at all what they're stated to be. They are in fact wars on people. Have you ever seen a bag of weed prosecuted? Do you think black children who are raised to believe they can only draw welfare as a means of sustenance are being treated with dignity and respect by those who call themselves state? Do you understand that you are 8 times more likely to be killed by a cop in the US than you are a terrorist from the middle east?

As for my success in bring about anarchy, I know it won't happen in my lifetime and I'm relatively certain it won't happen in my child's. I also understand the negative repercussions there would be if I was somehow allowed to flip a switch and get rid of the state. But that's not my goal. My goal is to inform and educate people alive now and help to bring about a more peaceful next generation. Human beings are incredibly complex but also quite predictable. We learn as children not by what we're told but by what we observe. Those of us who observe English become English speakers and those of us who are raised with negotiation and peaceful interactions become negotiators and peaceful individuals.

Likewise, those of us who are raised with violence almost always end up being violent or at the very least, condoning violence as a means to solve problems. This is why statism is so prevalent, because almost all of us are raised with violence and control. We're taught that might makes right and that we must subjugate our will to the will of those who're larger or more powerful than us.

The change will be generational just as the shift from slavery to abolition took generations. And if there hadn't been those "crazy" abolitionists who voiced their moral outrage at the notion of owning another human being, slavery would still be as normal today as turning on the television or visiting a car audio forum on the internet.

[Broke_Audio_Addict]

Slavery is still normal today in some places.

if all laws were struck down what makes you think people wouldn't own slaves?

Fact of the matter is just like anybody else you're trying to push your own agenda, you just don't want to see it that way.

[Broke_Audio_Addict]

It's really baffling how you think crime and things of that nature would diminish with no laws in place.

I do agree that police and the government over step their bounds but that's not to say everything about it is bad.

[Jhunt94]

anarchy might prevail ,and hell might freeze over one day too. Anything is possible in the realm of possibilities.

[Broke_Audio_Addict]

I think what he really needs is his own private island.

[Jhunt94]

I think what he really needs is his own private island.

lolol