Rudeboy Posted April 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2008 You call it a mistake, yet it hasnt failed on me... So I guess I cant admit im wrong till it fails.. *when i click on the sound deadner showdown in ur sig, the page comes up and whats at the very bottom? Fatmat ROTFL Seriously, what you are seeing at the bottom of the page is advertising from Google, over which I have absolutely no control - pretty good to preserve my objectivity, no? I guess that since you haven't answered my question twice now and based on another post of yours in which you refer to a special relationship with FatMat, your review is somehow being sponsored by FatMat. So let's see, you accuse me of taking money for my position in an effort to discredit what I said ... Don Sound Deadener Showdown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudeboy Posted April 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2008 Have you done any testing with the spray, or roll on deadeners?I have been looking at them for the new version. One thing you have to understand is that it is very difficult to test actual vibration damping effectiveness. There are standardized tests, but the cost about $600 per sample. In reality, it is pretty accurate to extrapolate expected performance from a few key characteristics, but I can't be precise.Vibration damping theory suggests that a liquid is going to be somewhat less effective than a foil faced mat. A lot of this has to do with tensions between the adhesive and the foil as the mat is deformed by sound energy. The foil also helps in terms of blocking noise from entering the vehicle from the engine, road, wind, traffic, etc. I've used liquids and found them to be pretty effective. There is a reasonable theory that the best approach is to apply liquid on top of mat. This reinforces the mat's constraining layer and introduces a different density to the mix. I've done this combined approach with pretty incredible results. It also does a nice job of sealing the adhesive edges away and making a neater job. Double the work and more than double the time. Something that's often overlooked is that the liquids need to be applied quite thickly. To approach the effectiveness of a mat, the liquid needs to be at least as thick, 1 - 2 mm. This is usually somewhere around 4 or 5 coats. You need to allow drying time between coats and then wait at least 24 hours before you can re-assemble the vehicle. Full cure takes up to 30 days and you won't get the full benefit until then. I've looked at liquids from Second Skin, Lizardskin, Cascade and Elemental Designs. Second Skin Spectrum appears to be the most sophisticated formulation. I'd put Cascade and Lizardskin slightly behind. ED's eDead has a very high water content. While it is cheaper than the rest per unit of liquid, you don't really care about that. You want cured material. eDead truns out to be a fairly poor value. Don Sound Deadener Showdown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AI James Posted April 23, 2008 Report Share Posted April 23, 2008 interesting to see a fatmat sound control person on this thread when they cant seem to answer emails or anything else with questions on product Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatMat Sound Control Posted April 23, 2008 Report Share Posted April 23, 2008 I had a call come into my office yesterday asking that I come into the forum and defend FatMat, the guy was pretty irritated at the bashing that some members are dishing out claiming no phone support, no email support, delayed shipping and the quality of the product. Honestly in my opinion I find that replying to post only causes irritation due to a back and forth debate! I am not going to do this, I am going to make a reply and at that point if anyone has any further questions or comments they can be addressed by phone support or email support, our contact information can be found at www.fatmat.com. I congratulate Don on his stand up idea to test all the products out there and to try and help other users get a better picture on the best ones to purchase, unfortunately his testing were not done properly, but with good effort! How we know this is that Don tested the old Fatmat which was only 40 mils thick yet he claimed it was 50 mils meaning that he did all these labret test yet did not even take the time to actually measure the products which was probably the easiest test that could have been preformed. Next he used an oven which if anyone knows anything about cooking would know that ovens cook very unevenly. I actually have to rotate my food while cooking in the oven to be able to have it evenly cooked. Honestly I don't want to sit here and criticize on Don because what he is doing seems to be a stand up gesture, especially being the hundreds and hundreds of hours he has put into ordering products, testing them, building a large website and posting on probably over a hundred forums, spending all these hours to enlighten the sound dampening industry without any gain or affiliation is more than I would do for no gain. Just because Don does not like Fatmat gives me no right to come in and tell him he doesn't know what he is talking about. As far as the contents of our products they are listed at www.fatmat.com, I cannot give you the ingredients just as Pizza Hut or KFC is not going to give you theirs. We as well as tens of thousands of customers have found Fatmat to be a very effective sound deadener at a fraction of the cost. As for customer support you can see from these reviews of our feedback for less than 6 months of selling on eBay that we are top notch! Not 1 negative feedback, here is a link... http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...ame=STRK:ME:UFS I see that you are saying in this forums to post your use of it and your feelings and leave everything else out. I hope that would stand in our favor as well, as we may ask our customers to join this forum and do just that. Spl Guru has used our products for years now and he is just standing behind something that hasn't failed him as we all tend to do. He replied to Don was all, I don't know his history on this forum but in this thread alone it doesn't appear he did anything wrong but stand up to something he likes as I can have hundreds of more customers do if you would like. In this world we have many types of individuals some prefer to drive a Ford, others a Dodge and so on. Fatmat will never stop the manufacturing of our Fatmat line, it is being used throughout the entire world with great success. To degrade a product is very easy, anyone can do it with no knowledge of ever even using it. We have very extensive testing done on Fatmat, it is not harmful as long as you don't eat it of course, may cause choking! If installed properly it will not fall off, unless you use baby oil as a degreaser. It has tremendous dampening results as well as it is very cost effective. We back our product up with a 10 year warranty so even if it wasn't installed properly we will send you out new product at no charge to you. We offer 24/7 ordering, as well as M-F 9-5 tek support. We even offer a 100% satisfaction guarantee, use up to 20% of our product, if you are not 100% happy you get a full refund. That being said we once again appreciate seeing such an enthusiast as Don out there, and Don if you would like to do a review of our liquid we will send you a free gallon if you like. It's a great product as well and can be used as a gravel guard as well as a sound deadener, 2 coats will do the trick! If anyone needs any support at all please call or email us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudeboy Posted April 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2008 I had a call come into my office yesterday asking that I come into the forum and defend FatMat, the guy was pretty irritated at the bashing that some members are dishing out claiming no phone support, no email support, delayed shipping and the quality of the product. Honestly in my opinion I find that replying to post only causes irritation due to a back and forth debate! I am not going to do this, I am going to make a reply and at that point if anyone has any further questions or comments they can be addressed by phone support or email support, our contact information can be found at www.fatmat.com. I congratulate Don on his stand up idea to test all the products out there and to try and help other users get a better picture on the best ones to purchase, unfortunately his testing were not done properly, but with good effort! How we know this is that Don tested the old Fatmat which was only 40 mils thick yet he claimed it was 50 mils meaning that he did all these labret test yet did not even take the time to actually measure the products which was probably the easiest test that could have been preformed. Next he used an oven which if anyone knows anything about cooking would know that ovens cook very unevenly. I actually have to rotate my food while cooking in the oven to be able to have it evenly cooked. Honestly I don't want to sit here and criticize on Don because what he is doing seems to be a stand up gesture, especially being the hundreds and hundreds of hours he has put into ordering products, testing them, building a large website and posting on probably over a hundred forums, spending all these hours to enlighten the sound dampening industry without any gain or affiliation is more than I would do for no gain. Just because Don does not like Fatmat gives me no right to come in and tell him he doesn't know what he is talking about. As far as the contents of our products they are listed at www.fatmat.com, I cannot give you the ingredients just as Pizza Hut or KFC is not going to give you theirs. We as well as tens of thousands of customers have found Fatmat to be a very effective sound deadener at a fraction of the cost. As for customer support you can see from these reviews of our feedback for less than 6 months of selling on eBay that we are top notch! Not 1 negative feedback, here is a link... http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...ame=STRK:ME:UFS I see that you are saying in this forums to post your use of it and your feelings and leave everything else out. I hope that would stand in our favor as well, as we may ask our customers to join this forum and do just that. Spl Guru has used our products for years now and he is just standing behind something that hasn't failed him as we all tend to do. He replied to Don was all, I don't know his history on this forum but in this thread alone it doesn't appear he did anything wrong but stand up to something he likes as I can have hundreds of more customers do if you would like. In this world we have many types of individuals some prefer to drive a Ford, others a Dodge and so on. Fatmat will never stop the manufacturing of our Fatmat line, it is being used throughout the entire world with great success. To degrade a product is very easy, anyone can do it with no knowledge of ever even using it. We have very extensive testing done on Fatmat, it is not harmful as long as you don't eat it of course, may cause choking! If installed properly it will not fall off, unless you use baby oil as a degreaser. It has tremendous dampening results as well as it is very cost effective. We back our product up with a 10 year warranty so even if it wasn't installed properly we will send you out new product at no charge to you. We offer 24/7 ordering, as well as M-F 9-5 tek support. We even offer a 100% satisfaction guarantee, use up to 20% of our product, if you are not 100% happy you get a full refund. That being said we once again appreciate seeing such an enthusiast as Don out there, and Don if you would like to do a review of our liquid we will send you a free gallon if you like. It's a great product as well and can be used as a gravel guard as well as a sound deadener, 2 coats will do the trick! If anyone needs any support at all please call or email us. Come on. You've really got to do better than this - maybe start by cleaning the word "butyl" off of ALL of your sites. As to attacking the tests I did - and continuously label them as primitive, you again have to do better than talk about thickness specs. If you bothered to read what you are quoting, you might have noticed the spec labeled "Published Thickness (mils)" that means it is the thickness as published by FatMat on the FatMat Web site at the time. Furthermore, it reads 45 mils.Instead of suggesting that you have tests that prove your claims, how about making them public instead of threatening to flood this forum with testimonials from shills? How about getting your story straight? When last we met, your defense was that you were the new owner of FatMat and not responsible or involved in any way in the problems of the past. Now you are part of the FatMat we, apparently going back at least several years. More to the point, how about starting with a clear explanation of how FatMat differs from Peel & Seal? I'm sure you'd agree that charging more for that blue logo would be unconscionable. I believe that some members here are expressing CS complaints that occurred prior to the "change" in ownership. I have heard that orders were being shipped promptly now. I have no idea how well e-mails and phone calls are being answered, but I question the use of the term "rubberized mastic" in response to questions about whether or not FatMat is butyl. The automotive CLVED market is clearly split into asphalt and butyl. Using technically correct, but misleadi9ng synonyms for asphalt is not a good thing. I have been very consistent in asking to be corrected where I am wrong. I have done so repeatedly over the years. I don't consider claims that asphalt can be superior to butyl with unsupported claims of supporting tests from somebody with a financial stake in the answer anything like a correction. I was very willing to give you the benefit of the doubt despite having severe reservations about the product you were selling. Consider that willingness suspended. You're a roofing guy. Don't be so quick to draw enthusiast/industry insider distinctions. Either you have been involved with FatMat for years or you haven't. Don Sound Deadener Showdown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MegaloManiac Posted May 5, 2008 Report Share Posted May 5, 2008 Looks like Fatmat Sound Control isnt going to counter to your statement Rudeboy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1413 Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Looks like Fatmat Sound Control isnt going to counter to your statement Rudeboy... yea, i can get dat you don't have N E negative feedback, but i know for a fact you can get the negatives deleted, peeps do it all the time. and ive heard dat the original owners are still part of FatMat ....wonder if dats tru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stereomayhem Posted August 20, 2008 Report Share Posted August 20, 2008 Very well put rudeboy. I have not used this product so I cannot review it but from the answers you have got from the company, and the tests you have done I think I will look elsewhere for a sound deadener. Research is key to any product that you buy. Thanks for your time spent. www.stereomayhem.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torres Posted August 20, 2008 Report Share Posted August 20, 2008 yea, i can get dat you don't have N E negative feedback, but i know for a fact you can get the negatives deleted, peeps do it all the time. and ive heard dat the original owners are still part of FatMat ....wonder if dats trujust for others reading this...in order to get negatives deleted, BOTH parties have to agree to it. and even then, the feedback remains on the list, then under it it'll say 'feedback has been mutually withdrawn' or something along those lines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniper Posted November 14, 2008 Report Share Posted November 14, 2008 REMOVED. 1997 Pontiac Grand Am SE Broke stock Head Unit Stock speakers suck -if I get a job, it gets 2 SA 8s in a 2.5cube box (roughly 2 cube with the port and woofers in)- -oh, and a new HU and some speakers that dont suck. and possibly a new muffler and tint job (previous owners tint is smudging in the back, if you know how to get tint off a window without damaging the heating stuff, let me know!!!)- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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