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2018 golf R - upgrading "Premium" fender audio system


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2 hours ago, BboyTaktix said:

..or am I just better to skip the REW test tones/filters portion (as per the REW instruction page) and go with playing plain old pink noise from REW in each speaker individually, then in pairs, then check the summation, and manually tune from the DSP software at each step where I see dips and peaks? This is what I thought to have understood from most tuners (ie youtube etc.) but I never see them go through the actual process, only showing the before and after correction curves.

After I finish my truck, I'm planning on doing a complete SQ system in my wife's explorer, so I'm learning from you and your experiences, so please, keep us posted. Unfortunately, DSP's are completely foreign to me right now lol. 

2011 Chevy Silverado under construction

My build log here. Check it out! 

 

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1 hour ago, Dafaseles said:

After I finish my truck, I'm planning on doing a complete SQ system in my wife's explorer, so I'm learning from you and your experiences, so please, keep us posted. Unfortunately, DSP's are completely foreign to me right now lol. 


definitely will keep you posted :p learning a lot through videos and reading.

 

Opened up REW and had a look around, it’s a pretty awesome software. It has built in pink noise generator as well and you can modify what frequency ranges you want it to play. Ill probably go that route for measuring response of each speaker then each pair, and then summing all, using the aux input from my speaker directly to dsp.

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2018 Golf R - Stealth SQ system build - C508GTI front (active), 2x Pioneer Z10LS4, Zapco DSPZ8, Clarion DPX11551 (Mono amp), Pioneer GM-D8604 (front stage amp), Pioneer GM-A3702 (rear fill amp)

SOLD! 2011 Subaru STI - 'modest' passive sq system - JBL p660c component (front) JBL P662 (rear) JBL W10GTI (sealed enclosure) 4ch JBL GO1004 (150RMSx4), Clarion DPX11551 mono amp ([email protected])

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Update: I have to add a post about CHECK - DOUBLE CHECK and TRIPLE CHECK all your settings when you think there is an issue somewhere. Despite being very detail-oriented, with so many factors in a build, including excitement to get it working, it's easy to forger small things. 

 

I hadn't mentioned this previously in the thread, but I always felt like my subwoofers were not performing as they should. They had amazing punch, but no low end. My gut told me something was off, and it can't just be due to them being low-profile subs, since I had a single low-profile 12 inch before in a box I built and it seemed to get lower.

 

I re-verified my amp crossover settings. I had put both subsonic and x-over filter to MAX, thinking that would leave them fully open so that the DSP would be the only one to do its thing.

 

Well, what I didn't realize is that I had the sub-sonic filter set the wrong way - was set at 80Hz when it should have been closer to the minimum (which is 10Hz) - just for added safety, I set it around the quarter turn mark which is 20Hz - i know these subs won't play under that. 

 

WOW did my music come to life...rap songs sound as they should. Too much so - I will have to cut the subs a bit.

 

Since I played with the filter settings, I will now go back and re-set the gain using my SMD-DD1 at head unit max volume, I have a feeling that I will detect some distortion at higher volume of gain now. 

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2018 Golf R - Stealth SQ system build - C508GTI front (active), 2x Pioneer Z10LS4, Zapco DSPZ8, Clarion DPX11551 (Mono amp), Pioneer GM-D8604 (front stage amp), Pioneer GM-A3702 (rear fill amp)

SOLD! 2011 Subaru STI - 'modest' passive sq system - JBL p660c component (front) JBL P662 (rear) JBL W10GTI (sealed enclosure) 4ch JBL GO1004 (150RMSx4), Clarion DPX11551 mono amp ([email protected])

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small update: got my amplifier OEM male plug delivered today - will need to take some time to transfer the old plugs to this new one, solder and shrink wrap the connections. Nice thing is the pins on the back are easy to bend so I can make them straight and then trim to connect. I’ll be shrink wrapping the 12V power and ground to ensure they don’t mess with anything if the plug shifts under the seat while driving.
 

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tomorrow is TUNING DAY! Hoping I can get it done in a few hours (half day) but as it is my first real tune I’ll be taking my time. Will document and let everyone know how it goes!

 

 

 

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2018 Golf R - Stealth SQ system build - C508GTI front (active), 2x Pioneer Z10LS4, Zapco DSPZ8, Clarion DPX11551 (Mono amp), Pioneer GM-D8604 (front stage amp), Pioneer GM-A3702 (rear fill amp)

SOLD! 2011 Subaru STI - 'modest' passive sq system - JBL p660c component (front) JBL P662 (rear) JBL W10GTI (sealed enclosure) 4ch JBL GO1004 (150RMSx4), Clarion DPX11551 mono amp ([email protected])

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36 minutes ago, BboyTaktix said:

small update: got my amplifier OEM male plug delivered today - will need to take some time to transfer the old plugs to this new one, solder and shrink wrap the connections. Nice thing is the pins on the back are easy to bend so I can make them straight and then trim to connect. I’ll be shrink wrapping the 12V power and ground to ensure they don’t mess with anything if the plug shifts under the seat while driving.
 

Font Material property Rectangle Temperature Gadget

 

 

Product Rectangle Font Writing implement Material property

tomorrow is TUNING DAY! Hoping I can get it done in a few hours (half day) but as it is my first real tune I’ll be taking my time. Will document and let everyone know how it goes!

 

 

 

Hell yeah! Tuning day! That's where the rubber hits the road! 

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2011 Chevy Silverado under construction

My build log here. Check it out! 

 

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Alright fellow audio enthusiasts, after 6 hours of tuning (2x 3 hours and a short break for lunch) I can say I am extremely happy with where my system is at - especially given it is the first time tuning a DSP EVER.

 

The umik-1 is a must honestly, it does MAGIC.

 

Along with Audiofrog target curve, I was able to get a pretty linear response and fix MANY major dips and peaks. The biggest fix was the bass - these shallow mount subs can really hit. I had to turn them down to -10 at first, and after a bit of listening I settled on them being at -9 level since I like a little more bass in my music.

 

If I put more time into it, I am sure I could make it even more linear. But, as this is not a competition car, and I was using 1/48 octave RTA and 1/6 smoothing which is above what was suggested in the audiofrog guide.

 

As I have learned from my research and watching many vids from people like PSSounds, there are some dips that just are not fixable no matter how much you play with it. In my case, this was the 500-650hZ range, in which the install and cabin gain probably came into play with my midbass speakers. No worries though, sometimes you just have to accept that and do your best with the rest.

 

Now onto the screenshots - I just ended up taking of each pair of speakers, since after tuning each side of each pair, there were no real major differences besides matching the volume;

 

 

First off, the woofers pair before tuning;

 

 

woofers-summed-no-tune-jpg.321889

 

 

After tuning;

 

 

woofers-summed-tuned-jpg.321890

 

 

 

 

next was tweeters BEFORE tuning - some major issues I had to iron out;

 

 

 

 

tweeters-summed-no-tune-jpg.321891

 

 

I am quite proud of how the tweeters turned out honestly, a reeally nice flat response up until around 15-16K and then dropped off due to them not being on axis (again - installation results) - had they been installed on axis in a proper pillar pod, they would most likely be flat up until 18-19khz, but I am very pleased nonetheless;

 

tweeters-summed-tuned-jpg.321892

 

 

And now for the subs - I knew these were peaky around 40-55 Hz ish just by ear, and I was not far off. Also had to lower the volume to match well with the other speakers;

 

 

subwoofers-no-tune-jpg.321893

 

 

 

and tuned:

 

 

subwoofers-tuned-jpg.321894

 

 

The rear fill I was less worried about but just wanted something somewhat linear from them - as such I did not spend as much time on them. They were quite a bit lower in volume than the fronts but that is OK, they are there for the effect. crossover points at 250hz to 5000hz;

 

 

before tuning:

 

rear-fill-no-tune-jpg.321895

 

 

and after tuning:

 

 

 

rear-fill-tuned-jpg.321896

 

 

 

 

 

finally, putting everything together, the entire system tuned;

 

 

 

entire-system-tuned-jpg.321897

 

 

 

besides the dip from 500-700-ish, I am very happy with the linearity for a non-pro installer and first time tuning.

 

There is another small dip at the crossover point of the woofer and tweeter around 2.8K, I may try to spend more time working that one out in the future, but after listening to some music honestly I am amazed at how much detail I now have and how everything sounds together. It gets loud enough and stays clear the entire way. More detail than I have ever heard before. Would love to hear a proper SQ system to compare and discover where my faults lie!

 

This was a fun journey and learning experience, which I am glad to share with you all.

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2018 Golf R - Stealth SQ system build - C508GTI front (active), 2x Pioneer Z10LS4, Zapco DSPZ8, Clarion DPX11551 (Mono amp), Pioneer GM-D8604 (front stage amp), Pioneer GM-A3702 (rear fill amp)

SOLD! 2011 Subaru STI - 'modest' passive sq system - JBL p660c component (front) JBL P662 (rear) JBL W10GTI (sealed enclosure) 4ch JBL GO1004 (150RMSx4), Clarion DPX11551 mono amp ([email protected])

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18 hours ago, BboyTaktix said:

Alright fellow audio enthusiasts, after 6 hours of tuning (2x 3 hours and a short break for lunch) I can say I am extremely happy with where my system is at - especially given it is the first time tuning a DSP EVER.

 

The umik-1 is a must honestly, it does MAGIC.

 

Along with Audiofrog target curve, I was able to get a pretty linear response and fix MANY major dips and peaks. The biggest fix was the bass - these shallow mount subs can really hit. I had to turn them down to -10 at first, and after a bit of listening I settled on them being at -9 level since I like a little more bass in my music.

 

If I put more time into it, I am sure I could make it even more linear. But, as this is not a competition car, and I was using 1/48 octave RTA and 1/6 smoothing which is above what was suggested in the audiofrog guide.

 

As I have learned from my research and watching many vids from people like PSSounds, there are some dips that just are not fixable no matter how much you play with it. In my case, this was the 500-650hZ range, in which the install and cabin gain probably came into play with my midbass speakers. No worries though, sometimes you just have to accept that and do your best with the rest.

 

Now onto the screenshots - I just ended up taking of each pair of speakers, since after tuning each side of each pair, there were no real major differences besides matching the volume;

 

 

First off, the woofers pair before tuning;

 

 

woofers-summed-no-tune-jpg.321889

 

 

After tuning;

 

 

woofers-summed-tuned-jpg.321890

 

 

 

 

next was tweeters BEFORE tuning - some major issues I had to iron out;

 

 

 

 

tweeters-summed-no-tune-jpg.321891

 

 

I am quite proud of how the tweeters turned out honestly, a reeally nice flat response up until around 15-16K and then dropped off due to them not being on axis (again - installation results) - had they been installed on axis in a proper pillar pod, they would most likely be flat up until 18-19khz, but I am very pleased nonetheless;

 

tweeters-summed-tuned-jpg.321892

 

 

And now for the subs - I knew these were peaky around 40-55 Hz ish just by ear, and I was not far off. Also had to lower the volume to match well with the other speakers;

 

 

subwoofers-no-tune-jpg.321893

 

 

 

and tuned:

 

 

subwoofers-tuned-jpg.321894

 

 

The rear fill I was less worried about but just wanted something somewhat linear from them - as such I did not spend as much time on them. They were quite a bit lower in volume than the fronts but that is OK, they are there for the effect. crossover points at 250hz to 5000hz;

 

 

before tuning:

 

rear-fill-no-tune-jpg.321895

 

 

and after tuning:

 

 

 

rear-fill-tuned-jpg.321896

 

 

 

 

 

finally, putting everything together, the entire system tuned;

 

 

 

entire-system-tuned-jpg.321897

 

 

 

besides the dip from 500-700-ish, I am very happy with the linearity for a non-pro installer and first time tuning.

 

There is another small dip at the crossover point of the woofer and tweeter around 2.8K, I may try to spend more time working that one out in the future, but after listening to some music honestly I am amazed at how much detail I now have and how everything sounds together. It gets loud enough and stays clear the entire way. More detail than I have ever heard before. Would love to hear a proper SQ system to compare and discover where my faults lie!

 

This was a fun journey and learning experience, which I am glad to share with you all.

So, all the tuning, all the extra equipment, all that was well worth it in the end? You really hear a huge difference between a tuned and untuned system? 

2011 Chevy Silverado under construction

My build log here. Check it out! 

 

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3 hours ago, Dafaseles said:

So, all the tuning, all the extra equipment, all that was well worth it in the end? You really hear a huge difference between a tuned and untuned system? 

Tuning is the #1 most important thing IMO, confirmed by my experience yesterday for sure even though it’s not a perfect tune. I had my “start” tune (just crossovers set and time alignment nothing else) in position 2 of the DSP and did a direct comparison via the Zapco remote - it’s night and day honestly.

 

the two biggest things were the bass integration and the tweeters. The bass was just way too overpowering and boomy/peaky at certain frequencies. Now it completely flows with the system seamlessly. The tweeter install is less than ideal for anything over 14ish khz, with my corrections, I was able to get them to play well up past 16 and even 17khz - I can tel you I’ve never heard detail like that in my music. 
 

honestly it’s so worth it, if I was more strapped for cash in a future build and had to start from scratch, I’d go with slightly lower end speakers (example a piecemeal 3-way setup up front), a good amp, any decent sub and a DSP most definitely to tie everything together. I need more listening time as after 15mins of blasting it my car battery was dead even on the charger. 
 

 

Edited by BboyTaktix
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2018 Golf R - Stealth SQ system build - C508GTI front (active), 2x Pioneer Z10LS4, Zapco DSPZ8, Clarion DPX11551 (Mono amp), Pioneer GM-D8604 (front stage amp), Pioneer GM-A3702 (rear fill amp)

SOLD! 2011 Subaru STI - 'modest' passive sq system - JBL p660c component (front) JBL P662 (rear) JBL W10GTI (sealed enclosure) 4ch JBL GO1004 (150RMSx4), Clarion DPX11551 mono amp ([email protected])

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2 hours ago, BboyTaktix said:

Tuning is the #1 most important thing IMO, confirmed by my experience yesterday for sure even though it’s not a perfect tune. I had my “start” tune (just crossovers set and time alignment nothing else) in position 2 of the DSP and did a direct comparison via the Zapco remote - it’s night and day honestly.

 

the two biggest things were the bass integration and the tweeters. The bass was just way too overpowering and boomy/peaky at certain frequencies. Now it completely flows with the system seamlessly. The tweeter install is less than ideal for anything over 14ish khz, with my corrections, I was able to get them to play well up past 16 and even 17khz - I can tel you I’ve never heard detail like that in my music. 
 

honestly it’s so worth it, if I was more strapped for cash in a future build and had to start from scratch, I’d go with slightly lower end speakers (example a piecemeal 3-way setup up front), a good amp, any decent sub and a DSP most definitely to tie everything together. I need more listening time as after 15mins of blasting it my car battery was dead even on the charger. 
 

 

I think it's going to be cool to do a complete SQ system in my wife's explorer. You've got me juiced! 

How does it sound in the other seats? My worry is that, when I do my wife's explorer, it'll sound good up front, but terrible in the back 2 rows

2011 Chevy Silverado under construction

My build log here. Check it out! 

 

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Small update - got the grilles I ordered and I really am liking the honeycomb pattern. They are metal. Also ordered magnets and going to use them to attach the grill to the upper beauty panel.

 

Here is a photo of the grilles sitting on the subs plus their thickness (pretty thin) - really excited for how it is going to look.

 

I need to work on my upstairs unit again this weekend - new kitchen is almost done LOL need to put the countertop and new sink and a very small amount of painting left. I will try to take some time on Sunday to finish up at least the first beauty panel. Maybe even the second.

 

I also need to shorten the power and ground wires to the small pioneer amp on the left (as you can see from photo below)

 

 I had to make my own baseplate for my new router in order for the giant 60-degree bevel bit to fit hahaha sometimes you just have to 'MacGyver' that shit.

 

img_1131-jpeg.322531

 

 

img_1132-jpeg.322532

 

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2018 Golf R - Stealth SQ system build - C508GTI front (active), 2x Pioneer Z10LS4, Zapco DSPZ8, Clarion DPX11551 (Mono amp), Pioneer GM-D8604 (front stage amp), Pioneer GM-A3702 (rear fill amp)

SOLD! 2011 Subaru STI - 'modest' passive sq system - JBL p660c component (front) JBL P662 (rear) JBL W10GTI (sealed enclosure) 4ch JBL GO1004 (150RMSx4), Clarion DPX11551 mono amp ([email protected])

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