Aluminum + Butyl

[Airborne]

I say give a shot. If any one of us were the lazy-"have someone do it for us" type this sight would not exist. The reason some things are ALWAYS going to be expensive is because no one figures out how to make that product themselves.

[mrafrica]

yeah exactly! what he said ^^^

[Airborne]

yeah exactly! what he said ^^^

I mean it. If folks didn't want to do it themselves Meade would have his shit installed at Best Buy instead of doing it himself.

[siucsaluki11]

^^^LMAO, meade have his stuff installed at best buy. Thats funny. But youre right, heres how i see it. Obviously someone has had this idea before, otherwise there would be one brand to buy from, or no brands. So its been done, they did it, why the fuck couldnt i do it or at least give it a shot?

Performer... No kidding it would probably be cheaper and easier, but i really dont care, the point was, i wanna do this shit, or atleast take a shot at it. If it works, fuckin sweet, if not, so what, i got to try something different.

[Airborne]

^^ yep

[Rudeboy]

Here are a few things to consider:

• Butyl isn't just one thing. There are several base formulas to which a wide variety of other compounds are added.
• Small lots of chemicals are much more expensive per unit than buying in bulk.
• These products are manufactured on heavy duty machinery that presses the hot adhesive onto the foil in a uniform layer. A second step adds the release paper.

I say go for it, but be prepared to have the final product cost you significantly more than what you can buy it for. The components for a decent buyl/Al are quite expensive. It is usual for manufacturers to go through dozens of formulations before they find the right combination of adhesion, viscoelasticity, etc. We like to believe there is a tremendous markup, but it's no where near as big as you might think. Asphalt is cheap, but it sucks, so there you go

You'll need to incorporate a release layer to protect the adhesive unless you are prepared to build 1 sheet at a time, let it cool, install it in your car and repeat.

[mrafrica]

see now thats the love for trying it on your own i knew the forum had! and yeah if there wernt people who wernt willing to do stuff then id be bored out of my mind and not have loads of builds to read thru and learn from. hopefully i can learn abit from this and maybe even get in on this project.

[siucsaluki11]

Rudeboy, I didnt expect it to be as simple as taking some butyl and dumping it on a sheet of aluminum and voila, sound deadener. But if I, we (a team of people that could possibly be formed from people on this forum and other people i know) can do this, and do it well, i personally think itd be pretty cool and worth it. I got friends who are in all sorts of different fields of engineering. Im pretty sure we could figure something out. If not, shit, well have fun tryin to figure it out.

I knew there are many different formulas to make butyl. I work in the glass/curtainwall industry, its the same way with caulk. We use both actually, and spend alot of time when we do our mock ups making sure that we are getting the propper consistancy and all that good stuff. But thankyou for the tip, since im guessing it isnt common knowledge. I see the link to the sound deadener showdown in your sig, did you write it? If so, would you care to share anything you learned about the good products vs the bad ones?

[Rudeboy]

Rudeboy, I didnt expect it to be as simple as taking some butyl and dumping it on a sheet of aluminum and voila, sound deadener. But if I, we (a team of people that could possibly be formed from people on this forum and other people i know) can do this, and do it well, i personally think itd be pretty cool and worth it. I got friends who are in all sorts of different fields of engineering. Im pretty sure we could figure something out. If not, shit, well have fun tryin to figure it out.

I knew there are many different formulas to make butyl. I work in the glass/curtainwall industry, its the same way with caulk. We use both actually, and spend alot of time when we do our mock ups making sure that we are getting the propper consistancy and all that good stuff. But thankyou for the tip, since im guessing it isnt common knowledge. I see the link to the sound deadener showdown in your sig, did you write it? If so, would you care to share anything you learned about the good products vs the bad ones?

I'm definitely in favor of the project you are describing. It will be interesting to watch and I hope you'll document the process so that we all can learn something. I was just pointing out that you are unlikely to save any money doing it. As long as you are going into it with your eyes open, more power to it.

I did write the SDS. Here's what I've learned The thicker the foil, the better, but there is obviously an upper limit where the material becomes too difficult to work with. As far as adhesive, it has been generally accepted that a material that has a relatively weak bond when first applied is ideal, as long as the bond strength increases over time. The advantage is that you can reposition pieces during installation. On the other hand, I have been playing with some samples that have a much gooier than usual adhesive, making the stuff harder to work with, but the vibration damping is excellent.

A basic requirement is that the adhesive can withstand 250°F for many hours and that it not become brittle in cold temperatures. Beyond that, manufacturers submit samples for Oberst bar testing to determine how well they perform. I've had pretty good results using 12" square pieces of sheet metal, hanging them by a corner, applying samples, tapping them with a stick and listening to the resonance. A good idea would be to set up a test rig like this. Use Dymanat Xtreme as a standard and try to beat its performance.

[etaks_crew]

Man, it'd probably just be cheaper and less work to just buy sound deadener.

LOLS theres the one personyou wee talking about. I say do it I've aways wanted to but wouldnt know were to begin